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There’s some truth in that nil, I just think when teams at the top start spending big on “hot property” shall we say, to me it’s a sign such teams are starting to lose focus. There’s nothing wrong with teams having an off season or two to rebuild, but that seems to be becoming unacceptable. That said, some of us suspected Haaland was bought more with the CL in mind, something that he may still help them deliver.
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Ed, good post (at 6.41 pm). Yes City do appear somewhat weaker. It’s all about work rate now with teams to wear down the opposition. But I think City, a bit like Liverpool, have not bought as well in their last 2 summer transfer windows and the success has perhaps made both teams a bit drunk with it so they start targeting more out and out no.9s to try and get even better or maybe getting tempted with luxury exciting signings rather than effective ones. Even years ago with Ronaldo and Rooney at Utd, my Utd friends always stressed that Rooney was the more important because of his work rate and that Ronaldo was more the icing on the cake. When he left it didn’t greatly affect them.
It’s a common theme that with success you start to forget the ingredients that got you there and so you then start declining.
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Think this is much worse than 2021 Sean. We are now getting comprehensively beaten by mid table sides. Our attack has no real fear factor and is disjointed, our midfield is awful and our defence is now littered with mistakes and there just seems little effort throughout the team.
What we previously had was a very charismatic manager who came upon the chemistry of that front 3, had a hard working midfield and defence to go with it, got some good success out of it, but now what’s left is knackered and we’ve not bought particularly well since to replenish it. The ice cream has melted away but the problem for Klopp is he’s the one left standing that has to take it all and he can’t seem to adapt to what’s left and clubs can’t sack all the players to keep the manager.
I just think this is the classic cycle of success where, after reaching the top, we forgot the reasons that got us there and lost our focus. As ever, getting to the top is one thing, staying there is quite another.
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Indeed Threeps, the problems are deeper than just giving Klopp a load of money in the summer (Who would do the buying? Who’s philosophy would it be based on?) I now think our next few games are pivotal in terms of Klopp’s future. He can’t just get the team fired up again like he did some weeks ago to press a bit more only for it to fade away again over the next games. He needs to take real action as you say, even if it was something as dramatic as divorcing from his assistant (if these stories are true about influence). Otherwise, hard to see things changing. But the concern for me is Klopp shouldn’t have found himself in this position, or rather, the club should have better managed this situation. Not saying it’s identical, but when the decision was taken for Rodgers to lose his assistant, that seemed the beginning of the end for him because I think he lost some authority at the club.
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Lucky, it was an interesting article you recently linked to about the brain drain at the club. Just again shows I guess that getting all the right ingredients together at the same time at a club: CEO, Head of Recruitment & Manager is very difficult to do. The way weve lost and recruited such people though needs to be looked at imo. The right successors have to be lined up long before you lose your current leaders. I wonder if the following was a turning point? With Peter Moore we seemed to lose someone with many years experience in different industries.
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Sean, it’s very difficult now as a lot of damage is being done to Klopp’s reputation. As I just discussed with reds on TT, the backroom staff needs sorting. But that’s going to take time, all the while Klopp is there taking the pressure with these results. The club has lacked leadership off the pitch imo.
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Ed, its a testament to Klopp that he got so much out of last year’s team. But in some ways it’s worked against him because it made out the team was in good order when it actually wasn’t at a deeper level and now we see the reality this season. But the problem for him as a manager is he is the one who still carries the can, as all managers do.
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Sean, I think where we’ll agree is Klopp has been let down by the current recruitment team which has added this pressure on to him. However, over last summer he insisted we didn’t need another midfielder, before later admitting he was wrong. Now OK, weve also been poor at the back, but also remember it was the chemistry of that original front 3 that really gave us a fear factor up top and kept opposing teams back. But weve lost that and not replaced it well enough and Klopp seems to have struggled to find another way of playing. And the problem for Klopp is that the role of a manager is to get the best out of what he has. Whether completely fair or not, he isn’t currently doing that with the way we are losing games. And even with a few players returning, not sure I see us improving that much.
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What makes you think things will turnaround in the next 10 games Sean? We thought we’d turned around in the Wolves FA Cup game. That didn’t last very long.
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I’m not so much turning on the manager Sean, I just think the relationship has perhaps now run its course. Also, the fans are spending large amounts to watch these performances. Even they will start getting fed up. If what Threeps said is true, is Klopp going to want to pick up the reigns again of other departments if he was hoping to wind down a bit? Add to that I don’t think this team can be put right in one season now. I think you’re looking at another 2/3 years. That’s another big job.
I also never liked the Salah contract situation last year. I just got the impression the club bent towards him which a club should never do. Just reminded me a bit of the Rooney Man Utd situation which I thought was similar. And then they go and blow all that money on Nunez. Imo, it was all the sign of a club in decline.
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Sean, do you think it’s realistic we can maintain this path and form until May? And what’s going to change in the summer with transfers with no CL? If Klopp is having more influence on signings then as I said, that’s only adding the pressure on to him what with big bucks recently spent on Gakpo and Nunez. It just looks to me like the party’s over because all the while the pressure only adds to him and inevitably relationships with some players will get fraught and we can’t just change the players and keep the manager. That’s not how clubs operate.
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Lucky, if that’s true about the coaching staff having more influence on recent signings, then it is only adding more pressure on to him. I’m not one to call for someone’s head, but I’m not sure how realistic it is for him to carry on. As I said before, sometimes when the party’s over, the party’s over.
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We were playing poorly even when Van Dijk was still fit Adlab. Several factors for our demise that have been repeatedly hashed out on here, but Klopp ultimately responsible for getting the team he has to at least be ready to perform and get results. In that he is failing, and whilst we know the season is something of a write off now, getting harder to see any light and relationships with the players are going to get increasingly fraught.
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I’m afraid this is why Klopp’s position might not be tenable this season. Where is the turnaround going to happen? Can we really maintain this path we’re on until May?
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And concedes the first goal again…and now another…in match terms, this season is like going down 4-0 after 60 minutes but having to endure the last 30 mins when you just need the ref to blow the final whistle and be done with it.
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Indeed Sean, it’s why City’s odds are still so short.
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Is Banjo now happy to get rolled over tomorrow?
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It’s not to say it’s a set rule
No indeed not nil, but there is a correlation I think nonetheless. It’s also the fact that many of these players are so young now, so even if they do come good, you may lose several years developing them. If you are to buy abroad, I think character has to be a big factor. I’ve heard people say for example players don’t generally travel well from the Dutch league, yet we bought Suarez from Holland and he was one of our best ever players because first and foremost, he had that street fighter attitude about him.
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As I recently said about the recent Liverpool signings, they’ve never played in the Premier league so players like Gakpo and Nunez haven’t hit the ground running. This contrasts with our earlier signings like Van Dijk, Mane, Wijnaldum, Robertson, etc, who all had previous Premier league experience and so they all pretty much hit the ground running and proved successful.
The concern for Chelsea is I don’t think several of their recent signings have played in this league so that does increase the risk. Doesn’t mean they won’t work out and obviously there are several factors that dictate the success of a player, but generally speaking I think the top clubs have historically tended to spend big on players already in the league to have that assurance. With FFP however, maybe that is changing with clubs now spending big on young players from abroad which in turn adds to the inflation. I just worry clubs are now trying to be too clever.
In recent months Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd have all spent big on young players from abroad with no previous premier-league experience and already several of those haven’t exactly set the world alight for the money paid granted it’s still early days. Again you look at the Arsenal signings that have helped take them off more recently, Jesus and Zinchenko, again players who’ve already played in the league.
So it could be that FFP causes clubs to start wasting more money than ever.
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