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A problem for the board is they’ll feel they have to keep all these players they’ve invested so heavily in. So that will dictate their decision making with regards to the type of manager they want for sometime to come because they’ve rowed so far down that river, it will be hard to turn around. I think Mourinho was always a temporary solution to try and win a title on the quick and that he’d find a way with the players bought. Now that he looks to be struggling, what do they do now?? I think unless Man Utd’s poor run continues, they’ll keep Mourinho on for the season whilst looking for a long term manager better suited to the players to install next summer. Though if Barca came in for Pogba, what then? There’s all sorts of things in the pipe work that could alter the course ahead.
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I think neither the board nor Jose even knows what now comes next. Man Utd have been all over the place at board level, so it’s not surprising to see that now reflected on the pitch. I think the reason why Jose still won a title during his second spell at Chelsea (something that no doubt further influenced Man Utd’s decision to hire him with his relatively quick turnaround) was because Chelsea’s recruitment, regardless of the manager, has always been quite strong whereas Man Utd’s has been quite desperate and all over the place.
They need to decide what their strategy is before they even decide on the manager.
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Keita should prove to be a pivotal player for Liverpool but he’s not quite settled into the club yet and I do think we lack that player with a bit of arrogance who can grab a game by the scruff of the neck when a game is drifting (or we’re stuck in front of a well drilled side). There were still some elements to our play today from previous seasons where we almost started reverting to taking pot shots to find a way through. Thought Shaqiri would have been the better substitute today than Sturridge as most of our play was in front of Brighton and we needed more of a runner to drive at them.
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Every season there’ll usually be someone at one of the big clubs who is either under pressure for whatever reason or there is some kind of discord and the media/press goes after them. There’s also obviously a big element of schadenfreude going on here and so the public are a big part of this because the media is tapping into this mood. And people can’t get enough of it and it sells papers. Like soap opera on TV, it is all designed and dramatized to provoke an emotional responses to draw more people in and get the popcorn out and people prefer that to reading about more serious issues. Just look at all the celeb stories on Mail online and the huge traffic it generates.
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Can’t exactly remember when I started posting on TT but it was around sometime in the Houllier era with Liverpool I think around 2002/2003. TT in its day was just great, not just the club forums, but the main site was a real hub where the whole setup just encouraged you to read and engage with all the latest stories and conversation and you really felt a part of the fan community from all the clubs (even lower league clubs). Some great characters and hilarious comments and reactions on many of the articles and stories. And by moderating and refreshing new posts every few hours, it generally stopped anything getting too out of hand (though it could still get heated) so it kept a lid on it and things just moved on with the next news stories. It was certainly more fun, (though this new instant posting is a lot better when having more constructive discussions). The new format has killed much of it and I can understand why posters have left it in droves and what’s left of it has retreated to the bigger teams club forums. Still enjoy the club forums and this site which is good for more serious debate and thrashing things out.
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Paxton, some fair points. I’ll just say a few things:
I think Liverpool undoubtedly got distracted by the CL particularly in the last few months of last season and obviously had a weaker squad than they do now. Without that distraction, I think they could well have finished 5-6 points better off, which would have had them close to second with Man Utd. Now obviously, that’s still 20 points to make up on City, but it’s a start.
As for the attack last season, they were still 2nd highest in terms of goals scored in the league. I don’t really this side of the game was the major problem for Liverpool last year (I will certainly agree with you that whilst that front 3 is incredibly effective together, if you lose anyone out of it, particularly Mané or Salah, it would lose quite a bit of its edge, so there is a vulnerability there which is why Liverpool wanted another attacker and why they went in for Fekir, though they could obviously revisit this area in January).
The main problem as we know was the defence and that didn’t get rectified until half way through the season. I hear what you say about the defensive stats only being over the calendar year, but the point is the defence was a big issue and has now clearly turned a corner and has been further strengthened over the summer. That should be worth at least another 10 points to Liverpool over the season, so there’s 15 points potentially made up to City.
Also, as well as VVD, I think Keita will prove to be a huge signing – I think the club has finally found a replacement for Gerrard and that will have a huge impact on the club at both ends of the pitch. Obviously no player is like for like, but we saw what difference a player like Kante made to Chelsea. Another 5 points made up to City potentially? And City may get a bit distracted by the CL this year if they get further so who knows.
It should be said it could still be close with the other challengers, and there may well be an element of the blistering way both City and Liverpool play that has got the media a bit carried away. But given the above, there is still good reason to believe these two will be the two main challengers.
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Man Utd obviously hugely changed tack when they installed Mourinho and as was mentioned by Carragher last night, Jose generally does not coach young raw players, he is all about the now and coaches ready made already established star players. But the transfer strategy and philosophy of the club have not yet caught up with Mourinho and there’s still somewhat of a residual older philosophy at play which is probably why he’s not been fully backed because that desire to coach and build is still probably at the back of the boards minds (as CM alluded to about the legacy of Ferguson).
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The reason why Liverpool and City are the favourites is because there is maximum harmony between the managers and players at both clubs and both have top quality squads now, City obviously having the better strength. Also, whoever is going to compete with (or even beat) City needs to also match their very strong attack because this further increases the odds of you winning games (assuming the defence is also strong, which again was proven and backed up in the stats on MNF last night showing Liverpool had very strong (and champion level) defensive stats in the last 6 months, which if extrapolated to a full season, showed them conceding just 28 goals I think it was). They’ve also added and further strengthened their squad throughout the team over summer, and certainly look to have had the best window out of the top clubs by addressing many of their weaknesses. (They may however be more susceptible to injuries than other teams it should be said).
In comparison, Arsenal are very much under construction this year with a new manager who has to coach new ideas and sort his squad out. Mourinho still doesn’t have the team and squad he wants imo, and I just don’t think he trusts or has faith in them to deliver what he fully wants or expects. He’ll obviously only do so badly because he’s still a top coach but only doing so badly ain’t enough to compete with the high bar Guardiola has set. Spurs will always be a very solid and effective side but for me lack the top quality attacking play and goals of Liverpool and City (but we’ll see). Chelsea may also do very well but they still have a new manger there who will take time to instil his philosophy.
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The problem is that Mourinho was the reluctant choice taken by the Man Utd board at the time he was appointed. I don’t think he was ever brought in with the long term in mind, rather he was seen as someone who could bring a title even if it wasn’t quite in the way the club wanted. But since his appointment, the club’s transfer strategy hasn’t changed to suit Jose. There’s the problem, and sooner or later, something will have to give. The board has to decide what direction it wants to go in – at the moment, it is working counter to Jose. The problem is the club has invested heavily in players that aren’t quite suited to Jose, and is it not the cheaper option to find a manger better suited to them than to spend another fortune bringing in more of Jose’s type of players??
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If there was more decorum shown by the top brass at these clubs, perhaps they’d be less traffic generated by these reactions. I seem
to remember Fergie brandishing City a small club some years ago (whilst attacking Benitez for referring to Everton in the same terms). Even when City got taken over, I think Fergie remarked that “there they are (City), still languishing in mid table”. Fans don’t forget these things._____________________________
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Man Utd have basically panic bought several big name players over recent years to try to keep in touch of the challengers, whilst at the same time chopping and changing managers, so there’s no harmony between the manager and transfer strategy. Mourinho still needs his kinds of players and this idea that he can just use what he has whilst also supposedly trying to play more like the Man Utd way is just idealistic flawed thinking.
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Understand the points you raise Nine, and you may well be right. I think KDB is one of those players who goes more under the radar compared to Salah in terms of the noticeable contribution and impact he has on getting City’s attack ticking and flowing. And you can never beat the proven reliability of star players. The point I would add from my last post is that although he would undoubtedly be a loss to City, Guardiola is such a clever manager (with big resources) that he has better redundancy options not just in terms of quality but innovation. He could find a way to make up more for his loss (though it may take a few games) more than could Klopp could without Salah imo. Now over a run of games, that might not be immediately obvious, but over a season I think it would be, i.e. City’s effectiveness without KDB would perhaps drop 10 to 15%, whereas Liverpool without Salah would drop more (assuming none of our new players or Sturridge has a blinding season). That last point is the unknown – if Keita and VVD fulfil expectations and say Sturridge stays fit and banged goals in, then a loss of Salah wouldn’t be quite as bad.
Either way, this season will be a close and absolutely fascinating battle between the two clubs. Guardiola is the more innovative and balanced out the two, but Klopp has such a strong connection and bond to his players that they fight so hard for him and so Klopp claws back somewhat here – enough to beat Guardiola? That’s the $64 million dollar question.
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Gjblues, saw it advertised the other day and will definitely give it a watch. The thing that strikes me about Guardiola is that, like Klopp, he acts like a father figure to the players at the club – it’s not just about respect and putting an arm round you, there’s something much deeper there with him. He’s also a stickler for fine details which helps makes him one of the most balanced and complete managers around. I was concerned for him at first when he came to the PL because I thought his philosophy might be too overcomplicated when translating it through to the players with regard to the nature of our league but because he has that aura about him, the players listen and deliver. Unique and special talent.
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Key word for me Nine is balance. City are more of a balanced side even though they still play on the front foot. To me, they just defend more naturally or robustly than Liverpool do. I’m maybe getting over picky here but we have to explore things in the fine margins when you’re close to your rivals – and Guardiola is a stickler for fine details. With Liverpool, their game is somewhat more about brute force and having a quick and ruthless attack (and albeit a hard working hungry team that works to win the ball back) whereas City has a more robust overall team strategy. Put simply, you could take any player out that City team and they’d cope and adapt. With a player like Salah, his movement and goals are so integral to our winning formula – and this also eases the pressure on our defenders (who I think are more exposed at times than our rivals defenders).
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This is still the difference for me between City and Liverpool. Whilst of course Liverpool should be less dependent on some players this season, Salah would still be a much bigger loss to Liverpool than KDB is to City. There’s far too much balance and quality at City for it to be a significant problem for them. The biggest opportunity for Liverpool this year will be if City go far in the CL, and thus struggle somewhat to juggle the two at the business end of the season. That said , Liverpool should still be looking for nothing less than maximum points in the coming months to put the pressure on.
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Agree completely Ed, Rashford should have been on even earlier. I think that some of the star players in the team generally believe their own hype whereas players like Rashford strike me as quite a humble lad who just gets on with it.
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Not to detract from the positivity tonight but if Germany delivered that performance, it would just have been deemed a professional job. England do it, and the media goes rather giddy. Let’s just keep our feet on the ground.
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Completely agree Nine, I don’t actually blame Karius tonight, I blame Klopp for ever believing he was good enough. He already had to drop him last season, but still kept persisting with him, even when Mignolet was still performing.
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Track looks far too narrow for cars like that. Disaster waiting to happen.
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The kids have looked a lot more passionate and up for it than the senior team. I’d almost be tempted to just take most of these kids to the world cup and let the senior members have to prove their passion. I do wonder whether a lot of the senior team believe too much of their own hype and hence feel too comfortable – we’ve got to stop putting some players on pedestals and making them feel untouchable – if they have some poor games throw them out and replace them with more passionate kids to teach them a lesson and some humility. With Rooney retiring it marked the welcome end to the ‘golden generation’ – we’ve got to ensure we don’t make the same mistake with our new generation of talented kids.
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