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Ed, I certainly don’t subscribe to this idea that Mourinho’s philosophy is out of date. As has been discussed at length, I think there is a disparity between the board’s idealistic strategy and Mourinho’s strategy. I think the board, under Woodward, have bought some marquee signings like Sanchez and Pogba, instructed the manager to also play and develop the youth, and seemed to think that Mourinho would be the silver bullet to bring it all together because of his previous records.
But in many ways Man Utd are a victim of their stature, what with Ed Woodward saying in the summer that “Playing performance doesn’t really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial side of the business.” There’s a big problem right there. Why spend more money whilst you’re making a very healthy profit?
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A few of the favourites are ruling themselves out. Might be worth a punt on some of the names further down the list. Guti certainly worth a punt at 28/1.
*Edit – indeed Guti’s odds already halved to 14/1. Still worth a punt.
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Nine, yeh enjoyed the discussion at the end. It’s below for anyone who missed it. Whilst Neville was the more sensible and pragmatic, Carra rightly pointed out that Spurs had to seize the opportunity of having this manager and these players – these things don’t come along very often and the question will be for the Spurs fans, so what if we get a new stadium if you lose this manager and players without winning anything? But I guess the board (unless anyone knows different) thought they’d use Poch’s abilities to help build a new stadium from the revenues he was helping to bring in rather than bring in silverware.
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You need someone in that dressing room who is hugely respected – that’s a big reason why Zidane had the success he did. He had the dressing room with him, understood the club having played there, galvanized the spirit and was quite astute tactically. So I’d personally look at someone who ticks those boxes if they’re looking at something a bit more sustainable, e.g. a former player. Or else throw in someone like Conte, who may be successful early on, but will probably end up ruffling too many feathers in the dressing room and will inevitably be chucked out. I don’t suppose Madrid care whichever they go.
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It’s pretty one way. Man Utd can turn it on here and there, but there just doesn’t seem to be a coherent plan and Juve are a very polished side at the back.
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Man Utd probably playing one of the favourites this year. Juve have been in a few finals in recent years and have recently added Ronaldo & Matuidi to their team. Be very tough but I expect Man Utd to at least turn up in such a big game.
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Problem is, as Ed Woodward put it some time ago, “Playing performance doesn’t really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial side of the business.”
Is there a huge incentive by the owners and board to quickly get things right on the pitch whilst they’re able to sign all these lucrative commercial deals and still be a big draw to the globalised world??
Quite good video that summarises recent financial results:
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As I say, the real question here is why haven’t the English sides won the CL as much as the Spanish teams in recent decades? And I think it speaks volumes that regardless of the quality Barca and Real Madrid have, there has still been a Spanish foundation and fight to those teams regarding the likes of Ramos, Casillas, Puyol, Xavi, and Iniesta. These players have been real leaders to their teams, galvanised their dressing rooms and so greatly assisted their managers. I think the English teams have lacked such players. Only Terry and Gerrard spring to mind. Indeed look how vital Gerrard was to Liverpool’s win in 2005!
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So in different ways it was just as difficult a competition as it’s always been, because though there were fewer games back then, you had to win the title to even get into it? So I think we agree with each other then. The point about quality is not particularly relevant to me because it’s all relative if all the teams we’re of lower quality back then, then it was still a difficult competition to win for each team.
For me the real question of this thread is “Why have the English teams not dominated the CL the way the Spanish teams have?” I point to some possible reasons in my post at 10.16 am.
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Didn’t actually see the Chelsea Utd game at the weekend, but even before the game I sensed Utd would at least turn up because it was such a big game that was going to be viewed by a mass global audience and the players (not matter what the turmoil) were always going to perform because, call my cynical, but they had their brand to think about. Again, I expect them to turn up in the big game at home to Juventus this week for similar reasons. With another game with Juventus upcoming, as well as the Manchester derby now on the horizon, this may well give them some fresh impetus in the short term. But will it last??
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So if the standard of teams is much higher in the CL than it ever was in the European Cup, why have Real Madrid still been able to win it 4 times in 5 years?? And bear in mind teams still dominated in the 70s and 80s, Bayern won it 3 times on the trot. Liverpool won it 2 times on the trot.
My point would be that the ingredients needed to dominate the competition don’t change – i.e. A team full of togetherness, leaders and quality.
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If that’s so Nine, why have Madrid been able to win it 4 times in the last 5 years??
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I think you need several ingredients to win the CL. I think you need a settled dressing room with leaders that’s also had time to develop a togetherness. I also think you need to be pretty tactically astute to win the CL. The thing about Klopp is that he is a manager who just tends to go for it and to some extent throw caution to the wind. That will only get you so far (though we also lack leaders). As for Pep not winning for a while, I think he does suffer from a bit of that tactical naivety at times and also whilst City have got many outstanding players, do they have such leaders in the mould that Real Madrid do with players like Ramos?? Not a popular man in Liverpool but he’s a huge reason for Madrid’s success in recent seasons.
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A lot of my prediction of Liverpool being challengers was based on Keita hitting the ground running and banging some goals in. He would have given us an edge on the other two sides and taken the burden away from our front 3 and so taken the pressure of them, which in turn might well have made them find their form more quickly, though not freshening up our attack over the summer wasn’t ideal as that front 3 know there’ll always be the first names on the teamsheet no matter what form they’re in (as has been proven).
All we can do now as fans is hope Keita does settle in quickly – I’m not going to be too critical as I think we forget at times that no matter how much someone is paid, settling into different countries at such a young age and being in the limelight can be very difficult. So I’m more than prepared to give him some time. But regardless, I think dipping into the January market is probably now vital if we have any plans for the title. (Problem is now, without gaining any edge on the other two sides, they too could look to strengthen in January. A window that is usually quieter could potentially see some more activity as all those teams look to gain an advantage over the others).
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A game to write off for both sides.
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It’s as though Man Utd need to press the reset button. They’ve made so many scattergun decisions over recent years that the whole club is all over the place. They’ll probably install somebody to try and make the best of the situation for the rest of the season, but finding somebody who’s job is just to steady the ship still won’t be easy, particularly if they’re constrained as to who they can sign or whether they’ll be expected to play certain players. The job will become a poisoned chalice if they’re not careful (if it isn’t already).
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GJ, I just think the concentration levels will be back because of the importance of the game. Our defence is also much improved. By no means saying that guarantees us the win, just it’ll be more of a contest than some think. If our front 3 and midfield are still found wanting and don’t deliver, you’ll most probably win. We can’t keep turning to Sturridge to bail us out.
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I’m not too pessimistic about Liverpool’s chances on Sunday because I strongly suspect the pressing and the energy levels will be back which should at least give them half a chance and still make for a good contest. Because of the importance of the game, I think it will play out more like a derby game, so to some extent, form will go out the window.
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City will have a field day at Anfield if Liverpool repeat that tonight. Keita, unless the injury isn’t serious, will be a big miss. The pressing and energy levels will have to be at their maximum if they’re to get a result on Sunday.
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If, hypothetically, Fergie was back available (I know that couldn’t happen now), but would he get the job anyway? The club has abandoned his legacy so quickly over recent years, that if he came in and immediately chucked out a lot of the egos in that dressing room, he probably wouldn’t be allowed to do it because of the money invested in them. So like other clubs in the league, they might as well change the job title from “manager” to “head coach”. Not sure Zidane would take it (and his English would be a problem). Conte can be a bit fiery himself and commands the obedience of the dressing room so I’m not sure he’s the answer. I don’t think the job would be right yet for Pochettino. Which basically implies that Man Utd need an interim manager in the short term to steady the ship and very gradually move players on whilst trying to develop the younger players. Out of all the names being linked to the job, the only one that would make some sense, particularly if they’re hell bent on keeping Pogba happy, would probably be Didier Deschamps.
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