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That’s one point in 5 games for Everton. Dyche not going to survive much longer at this rate.
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Agree Banjo, silly thing for me, is they probably think giving him a lot more time is the right thing to do because it seems like a wise thing to do, even though for me, after over 12 months in charge with more of his own players, they still look no further forward imo. Like saying you’re having doubts about your potential spouse but you’re still going to go through with the wedding because these things can apparently take time to get right or you think things might change.
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But he’s only had experience in the Dutch league Sean, albeit with a period with the Bayern second team. And he’s gone from that to one of the biggest clubs in England. In the modern game you need to travel around a bit and build yourself up gradually unless you are *really* something.
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Srd, oh there’s no doubt a lot over truth in that regarding recruitment. But I still think that you can gauge relatively quickly how good a manager is going to be irrespective of the squad they inherit. Klopp turned things around pretty quickly after inheriting a relatively poor squad. You could even see signs Rodgers was changing things even if he had his limitations and again he didnt exactly inherit a team of world beaters at Liverpool. You look at Postecoglou, De Zerbi, etc. It ultimately starts with the manager, and I don’t think Man Utd have made a good appointment since Sir Alex left. Until they get that right, nothing will change.
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I think things will steady themselves out at Chelsea under Poch, but not much more than that. Chelsea lack forward quality and now have a manager for me who isn’t bold enough up top. So not surprising for me they’re struggling in that department.
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Just on Ten Hag and Man Utd. I can’t believe Shearer went unchallenged last night on MOTD when he said it was the ownership uncertainty that was starting to affect Man Utd on the pitch. Really? Even Gary Neville conceded that Man Utd were well beaten by a well drilled team who knew what they were doing. Bear in mind De Zerbi has been in charge for less time at Brighton than Ten Hag has been at Utd. Also Ten Hag has more resources and is surely bringing in players he wants? Compare also the positivity Postecoglou has injected into Spurs. The responsibility of a manager is to work with what he has and make it better. Is Ten Hag doing that at Utd? Looks yet another wrong appointment for me.
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As I say, I just look at the attacking credentials of the teams. A good attack will not win you a trophy on its own but it will get you bloody close. When we signed Torres it got us to the closest in years and we got even closer with Suarez and Sturridge. And the front 3 of Salah, Firmino & Mane finally got us there (of course helped with the defensive acquisitions).
City’s attack is there for all to see but Liverpool now have more attacking midfielders so I think we’ll be a lot more robust. It’s the defence that’s the concern, but if we keep attacking well that will still alleviate some of the pressure on the defence.
Spurs may have some hiccups, but the attacking way they play will still serve them well. Arteta seems to overcomplicating things at Arsenal for me but they still lack a wow factor up top I think. Chelsea still don’t have enough up top to threat for me, its to be seen how much Højlund can do at Utd but even if he does well still not sure they’ve got enough to seriously threat. Newcastle have had a difficult start with their opening fixtures and the CL will obviously congest things but again, just don’t think they still have enough up top to threat.
As to why there seems a dearth of attacking talent at some clubs, I just do wonder if this modern fashion of trying to bring in young prospects is actually putting a lot of pressure on them or do some just not get enough game time? I mean how much game time is Palmer going to get at Chelsea? Jude Bellingham couldn’t have made a better move going to Dortmund because it was still a big club in Germany and he was always going to get game time which was perfect for his development.
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Thing is though Lucky, the scouting of attacking players has still been quite poor. Chelsea in recent years have spent quite big on Lukaku, Werner, Havertz, Ziyech, Pulisic, Morata, Batshuayi. In fact I’d say you have to go as far back as Diego Costa in terms of finding the last top top striker you had. And it’s no surprise that’s the last time Chelsea won the league. And you could probably throw the same thing at Man Utd. The last top striker they bought at the peak of their powers was probably Van Persie. And again, that’s the last time they won the league. Might say the same thing with Arsenal last winning the league with Henry.
Is it more FFP having an impact in trying to either bring in a younger prospect or a top striker in their twilight years?
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What I find strange – given the modern fashion of attacking football now, quite a few of the big teams still lack top quality attacking players. Man Utd, Chelsea, Newcastle (if you can include them now). I’d even say Arsenal still lack a world class striker.
There’s a reason why City and Liverpool are being talked about as the two best so far – they have the two of the best attacks in the league.
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It is amazing how quickly teams concedes immediately after scoring. I think it gives the team a temporary over confidence and they take their eye off the ball, not that Utd have been particularly special so far.
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The concern I’d have for Chelsea, following on from the other thread, is that by giving all these players big lucrative contracts I think they’re arguably making them quite powerful at the club. And the shear number of the players signed is going to be hard to manage for the manager.
Also, whilst Poch is a tactically astute manager who makes teams quite solid, I don’t think his teams have tended to be expressive enough up top, which given Chelsea’s lack of options up there, adds another concern.
So I share Ed’s thoughts that someone else may well come in at some point, though the club needs to be careful it doesn’t become a poisonous chalice for prospective managers.
Compare and contrast Postecoglou, who is arguably having more impact at Spurs in a few months than others have had over a much longer time.
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Just to expand on my point and explore why some transfers work and some don’t. Let’s look at Sanchez going to Utd. Let’s suppose he’d gone to City instead (apparently City were also chasing him I think). Would Sanchez also have not particularly worked out at City? I’m not sure. Not saying he’d have set them completely alight, but again I revert back to my point – would City have “used” him as opposed to Utd perhaps “needing” him? Would Pep have simply seen him as just one piece in his jigsaw? And maybe he’d have been more effective?
Afterwards, Pep said the following: “I respect that decision and I move forward and look for another solution because the stability of the club is the most important thing. Normally we try to be stable with the wages of the players because I think it is good for the team and stability of the club.”
Via https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/pep-guardiola-reveals-manchester-city-11880757
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Ed, I think a lot of Liverpool’s success under Klopp has been because of the potency of the attacking players. In some ways I think Klopp built that team around that front 3 (Salah, Mane, Firmino) which maybe wasn’t healthy in the longer term and perhaps made us more dependent on them.
When Ronaldo left Utd the first time under Ferguson, it didn’t massively impact them because they were such a robust side throughout. Also because Liverpool has tended to rebuild more slowly, it means we would be impacted more by players leaving. Salah leaving now probably wouldn’t be as bad as it would have been a few seasons ago because the attack has been more refreshed recently and our attacking strategy I think is changing which is not a bad thing as it looks like we have a more traditional or robust midfield feeding the strikers and hopefully scoring goals themselves.
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Adlab, indeed Ferguson did do similar at Man Utd. And again it’s because he ensured the club was bigger and the players were ultimately disposable. Beckham & Stam were offloaded without much of a tear I suspect. I think he later admitted letting Stam go was a mistake but it didn’t massively affect them.
As soon as you detach yourself from the players you inevitably make more relaxed rational decisions. That’s obvious but it’s a quality very few seem to have, particularly in a market where players have arguably become brands in themselves and there’s a lot of pull and attraction from them. Also being so cool and ruthless isn’t particularly popular.
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City have the best set up not just because of Pep but because I think they ultimately just use players and aren’t really in hock to them. They offload them if a good offer comes in and immediately replace them. The players are disposable because the club is bigger. They have no fear even if a big name leaves. They have no attachment to them from a business point of view. That’s the way it should be. Most of the other teams I think are to some extent more in hock to their players, and so I think they arguably become more comfortable and powerful.
Yes City have had the money to build it, but even so, the general strategy of ensuring the club is bigger and keeping the players as disposable products is rarely followed at other clubs. Its not rocket science what City have done, so why do so few others seem to follow their blueprint? I think its more than just money, I think having the faith in this plan and assertiveness to execute it, is a rare quality. I think others get worried about investing (i.e. lack the faith) or they maybe panic or they perhaps pursue other flawed plans that may make them feel better but they just won’t bear the same fruits.
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Whilst we now have more variety in our attack, Salah is still absolutely key. Not just his goals but all round play. You talk about those recent Nunez goals, but look at the quality of that through ball to him by Salah. So hard to find that quality. This is what is so infuriating about us not investing more at the back to be title contenders again. Players like Salah won’t be there forever, we may still lose him next year. So you’ve got to try and make the most of what you have when you have it.
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Ed, we certainly have significant issues at the back and Van Dijk looks a shadow of his former self. But just a couple of the right players can really lift you, though I don’t hold out for much that we’ll get them. As things stand, we sort of look like that Brendan Rodgers second season in 13/14 where we very effective up top, but a lot less so at the back.
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Banjo, the one area of the pitch we are strongest is up top. And Salah is an integral part of that. Lose him and we’d be significantly weaker. I would still be surprised to see him go at this stage. The fans aren’t happy as it is with the window. The club knows we can’t afford to lose him.
We desperately need another midfielder and defender. Knowing us we’ll probably end up with neither.
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I fear the window will end for us in another big disappointment. Infuriating thing is, we’re probably only a few players away from giving City a run for their money.
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