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Nine, I think it’s a very difficult one for Liverpool now, but they may now have to go for it tonight to regain momentum and a belief in themselves. If people disagree and think that the cup could harm our league chances then the biggest thing that has harmed our league chances is the recent loss to City. I think that result has been underestimated by many in the media, and whilst it still looks like a different more title winning Liverpool this season, it has still failed to be ruthless in many of the big games this season – particularly the away games in both the league and CL (i.e. away to Napoli, PSG, Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal). And against this City team, it just can’t afford to do that. This lower energy football may be working for Klopp against the lesser sides, but it ain’t working against the better sides. We have lost our frightening edge. The one key area in which we beat City several times last year was our momentum and fight – we can’t lose that this season in the trade off vs lower energy football and there are times as I say where we have lost it and the results have unsurprisingly followed suit.
Also in the 2011/2012 season, City were just 3 points clear of Man Utd at this stage and we all know how that season ended.
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Nil, I can only think Klopp still doesn’t completely trust Fabinho. I think in a recent game Fabinho put in a loose pass on the edge of our box which nearly put the opposition in. Henderson is unspectacular but probably more reliable in Klopp’s head so that’s why I think he plumped for him for trust reasons. Fabinho clearly offers more, gets struck in, and offers a forward outlet too. I’m sure it was a very marginal decision mind and he was obviously forced to bring him on anyway. The sooner he trusts both him and Keita, the better.
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Mak, for the record I’m actually more philosophical about things these days and I’m not as angry as I may sound. I’m just very aware of how close the battle may be. You may well be right. We may well go on another run and hopefully we do and hopefully this is another waypoint on a successful journey. As I say, I think we all knew this race would probably be close, and we obviously want to keep as big an edge as possible over our rivals.
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Mak, City clearly wanted it more tonight in a huge game. And they deserved it. I don’t really subscribe to being unlucky. We seemed to play it tonight like a first leg CL away game and tbh, that wouldn’t have been a bad result. But it wasn’t a CL game. And we will get no second chance to undo the result tonight. It’s obviously not game over as far as the title is concerned, but in a close close race, to lose a 6 pointer like that is a big deal. And the psychological damage is to be confirmed. What I’m afraid it’s confirmed is that whilst Liverpool are a challenger, they ain’t a ruthless one. And it’s going to go down to the wire. I guess the blip from City gave us undue hope that we may seal it early this season. I’m really not trying to be negative, just frustrating we couldn’t capitalise on it tonight. I think this game came at a better time for City than us, and I don’t think Klopp knew quite how to play it tonight and got caught playing somewhere in between strategies. The only hope is that it wakes us up to things. Problem is, it’s certainly woken City up.
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Paxton, on the surface that’s true. But deep down, that’s a big result for City which will give them big momentum. They’re not a team you want to let back in the race. I’m just frustrated really because we always seem to do things the hard way. In all honesty, I’ve always thought if we were to win the league under Klopp, because there’s a bit of a tactical weakness there, we’d probably only win a title by a few points rather than more ruthlessly. Which means it’s going to be a long old season. Great for the neutrals. Should say it’s a good result for you fellas too. Shouldn’t rule you guys out either, particularly if there are more hiccups along the way, which there undoubtedly now will be now the race has opened up again.
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Aussie, as well as Klopp has done to get us into this position, he has to seize the opportunity (or at least not have lost the game). City were on the ropes towards the end of the game showing there was a weakness there. Having watched the game, whilst City have undoubted top quality, they also clearly wanted it more. You need both ingredients to win a game, and we lacked the desire (surprisingly) so we lost the game. And not any old game. The biggest game of the season that’s just put our main rivals well and truly back in the race. It’s not game over, but we’ve just put ourselves under big pressure now.
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You’ve got a great outlet there Aussie.
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It hurts to say it Sean. It was just too big a game to lose. No way Fergie or Mourinho at their best would have lost that. Instead of shutting the door firmly back in City’s face, we’ve just given them a big foot in it. It’s weak. I honestly don’t think Klopp knew how to play it tonight and got caught playing somewhere in between.
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I’m afraid champions don’t lose those kinds of game tonight. The difference between being 4 points clear and 10 is huge. It reminded me of a game vs Leicester some years ago after Ranieri was sacked where we just tried to contain them and looked for something on the break. It unsurprisingly wasn’t enough and we lost the game. Huge momentum swing that, and I’m afraid disappointing from Klopp again in a big game. Why Fabinho didn’t start is somewhat of a mystery.
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TAA’s passing is Gerrard-esque.
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You need players in such a game that can thread the ball through the eye of a needle. Aguero is one such player.
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I just can’t work out how this one’s going to go, which usually indicates a draw.
Both teams may play similar football but there are two quite different managers and quite different teams there. Pep is an excellent footballing coach hellbent on even the smallest details. Klopp has this team very well drilled but is a bit more off the cuff and let’s the front players take care of things themselves. So purely on football terms I think Pep wins that one. But in terms of passion and drive in the team, I think Klopp wins that one. We’ll see what happens.
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Don’t disagree Ed, and I mentioned a few days ago Chelsea have adapted best to FFP in recent years. But even so, it’s still not what it could be when you compare Fergie’s record. It’s interesting that a team hasn’t won two straight championships on the run for a few years now in the absence of academy players. In fact, Man Utd were the last team to do it under Fergie winning 3 straight championships from 2006-2009. So it’s not been done for 10 years now which I think says a lot.
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Some teams may win titles without bringing kids through but it makes their success less sustainable and short term because you neee to keep throwing money at new players to keep things as fresh as possible though that even isn’t always enough in the age of the powerful players. Fergie was the master here let’s be honest. Bet his net spend each season wasn’t very much. In fact it wouldn’t surprise me if Man Utd have spent more money since Fergie left than they did during his reign. But in the furore in the boardroom to try and make something happen any rationale or wisdom gets chucked out the window.
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Chelsea are probably the best top team that has adapted to FFP in terms of player recruitment and getting business done early. They don’t mess around.
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I do recall Pep saying some years ago that football is a game generally won by the team who make the fewest mistakes. Which is why drills are a key aspect of good coaching/management.
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The honours system has now been devalued to such an extent that they’re no longer worth anything. I mean to give one to Southgate for example is actually embarrassing. At the World Cup, England beat Tunisia and Panama, lost to Belgium (twice), beat Colombia in penalties, beat Sweden but then lost to Croatia (one of few decent teams they actually played). It’s a national embarrassment and to bring out a DVD to celebrate it called “Daring to Dream” is even more embarrassing.
It’s very simple. At the end of each year, you look to see if anyone deserves an honour – if there are no outstanding candidates, you don’t give out any honours for that year. Or the year after that if there are no candidates then. Only when someone actually deserves one should they get one. But honours are only issued now to people who are basically flavour of the month. But that’s where we are with it.
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I’ve always thought City are beatable as I think they lack strong leadership, but because of their squad and and the weakness of the PL, they will still easily mop up many of the lesser sides. Liverpool have a big opportunity, but they obviously still can’t afford to lose many games.
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If it shows you have to be on your game in every moment, then by definition it’s a failure when a team isn’t on their game. It is the fault of the team/manager not “the nature of football”.
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Paxton, I just think it lets everyone off the hook. I know football’s not an exact science and you can’t necessarily guarantee results, but by all means admit you couldn’t find a way through today, or say you need to try harder. At least then it might make the team waken up and actually try harder next time. I know some might argue the “this is football” line helps to protect the players confidence, but I just think that’s getting ridiculous. Are the players that sensitive? They shouldn’t be playing if so. As for completely dominating a game but not getting the result, again, it doesn’t really wash with me. If you dominate a game but don’t win it, you have failed in your task to win it. It is by definition a failure, even if the task was quite hard and the other team was very defensive. Unless you’ve hit the post 50 times and had several bad refereeing decisions, I have little sympathy with such managers. Admittedly a lot of this may be linked to the players being untouchable nowadays (so the excuse is used to protect them). And that’s also linked to managers getting sacked instead of them, which makes them richer for it as you say. Crazy situation. But one way out would be for clubs to start blooding more of their youth , who although might not have the same quality would make a lot up for it with desire (and they’d have no egos). But clubs don’t see the wisdom or have the patience in such things because the owners are paranoid about losing *any* ground to other teams, so they keep making irrational panicked decisions, and the cycle continues. It’s all linked together this stuff.
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