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That’s the danger for me though Ed. You start aiming for second best and begin accepting it. Take it from a Liverpool fan in the doldrums for a long time.
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You mention Arteta Ed, but he’s been in charge at Arsenal for nearly 4 years and the only major trophy he’s won is an FA Cup in his first season. I still don’t think they’re good enough to win the league after quite a bit of investment. Is Arteta the best example to cite? I concede there are no obvious candidates to replace Ten Hag at the moment, so the club will probably have to sit tight for the time being.
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Yes Banjo, that’s a fair point. I think having such a long term manager like Ferguson can make a club complacent and I think the club inevitably bends towards that manager and a vacuum is somewhat left when they leave and they’re unprepared for it. In some ways Abramovich’s ruthless culling of even successful managers prevented these problems, and it did prove successful. But he still generally made good appointments. Man Utd just haven’t.
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As they say, a rising tide lifts all boats.
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Just a few responses CM to your post. I hear what you’re saying and I think there’s some truth to it and I think the owners have lacked impetus in moving the club forwards and maybe been too laid back. I think because the club have made the wrong appointments for so long now (about 10 years), a rot has almost set in and I think it is now deflating the whole club. You can argue the owners are ultimately responsible for those appointments but at the same time, it strikes me there’s been a significant movement within even the fans to try and find a new Ferguson and “do things the right way” and I think that’s partly influenced the owners, to the detriment of the club imo.
Secondly, having such spending power in the transfer market is, strangely, probably a disadvantage because the club I think feels it can always reach for a big money signing to try and paper over the cracks if the success isn’t coming, as I alluded to above. And I think such things have compounded the situation and if anything, has probably made some of those players more powerful.
As for the hypothetical of Klopp being at Utd, as I say above, I concede any manager going in now is going to have a real uphill battle to turn things around. So it’s even more important that they are an excellent man manager. But Klopp is that and I think regardless of how bad things are, he would still breathe fresh air into the team and whole club. Don’t underestimate the difference he could make on the pitch. It’s admittedly a different situation at Spurs who don’t have the same expectations, but just look at the positivity Postecoglou has injected into Spurs after their recent poor appointments. Look how suddenly different that club is now after just 7 games gone. Not saying they are transformed yet, but boy are things healthier now. Just as one new good player can make a big difference to a team, a top manager can move the earth at a club. And as I said before, I think such people can infect the whole club in a good way and sharpen minds to really start driving the club forwards.
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It can actually be resolved quite swiftly this. For me, if you look at the transcript, the big problem that caused this were the words “Check complete, That’s fine”. It was too vague and ambiguous what this meant. What should have been said was “Check complete – player onside, goal to be awarded.” Just a bit more clarification would have stopped the chain of events that followed. That’s where Webb should be rectifying things.
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CM, whilst it’s true City & Liverpool did do well before Pep & Klopp, if you look at the margins they were much tighter. City won their first title of this era under Mancini on goal difference. They won their second title under Pellegrini by just 2 points. Rodgers did do well early on at Liverpool but I think in some ways was fortunate to harness the chemistry of Suarez & Sturridge. Look what happened when we lost Suarez – we invested badly and went backwards very quickly. For me, it was only when Klopp & Pep came in did both the recruitment of City & Liverpool get a lot better and more consistent. As for Pogba, I think he was just a poor purchase but because the club spent so much on him they were just hoping it would work out and didn’t want to take a hit. In my opinion a lot of the club’s spending over these years was somewhat done to overcompensate the case they didn’t have the right manager. And I think the signing of Ronaldo epitomised that. So I maintain that everything is rooted in the right managerial appointment.
The problem for me with Ten Hag in trying to pursue a long term dream of developing young players into a title winning machine is that I think it puts everyone in a more relaxed frame of mind at the club because the focus is the long term and Ten Hag has had a lot of say over transfers it seems. But all that has done for me is to put him under big pressure because this is Manchester Utd, one of the biggest clubs in the world! You have to deliver quickly.
Until the club makes the right managerial appointment, the club will continue to be in the doldrums. Everyone talks about the club lacking direction and leadership – but that ultimately comes from the manager! Watch what happens when Klopp & Pep leave their clubs – I think the clubs may then start be more rash in the transfer market to try and maintain their status. Just as Man Utd did in my opinion post Ferguson.
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Pep and Klopp have been a success due to the people who are in charge of transfers. If they were not around, then I doubt they would be as successful. In today’s football, you need the right director of football or sporting director in place.
True to an extent, but I still maintain, once you make the right managerial appointment, everything else tends to fall into place. If the manager hits the ground running, which most good managers do, it lifts everything and top players then want to come and play for you and I think it sharpens the minds of people nearer the top of the club to get the right players in. I think it can be very infectious.
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But I don’t think those appointments were ever really the right ones CM. Yes some had the experience, but in my opinion Van Gaal & Mourinho were past their peak. And Moyes, Ole & Ten Hag had little to no experience of managing a top club in a top league with big expectations. Man Utd need a top, progressive/attacking manager at their peak. Looking through the possible candidates to succeed Ten Hag, I concede I can’t see many that fit the bill so some compromises will have to be made. Zidane is currently the favourite but again not sure he’d be the right appointment. Personally, I’m also not sure De Zerbi would be the right appointment either – I’m not sure if he’s balanced enough. Dare I say, it might potentially have to be another interim appointment. Either that or you just have to sit tight with Ten Hag for the moment. But he can’t keep losing these games, particularly at home.
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If you’re appointing a manager at a big club, they really need to be a seasoned manager who has proven success at the top level, ideally at several clubs, and even better if in several different leagues. The Ten Hag appointment just struck me as a pipe dream. For me, once a club becomes established and big, you don’t then try and go on a “journey” to build things slowly with very young players and a coach with experience of mainly the Dutch league. The expectation is just too high so it’s unrealistic. Yes the recruitment team hasn’t been great, but if you get the managerial appointment right, these things tend to fall into place. I’m not sure Ten Hag has long. But will they get the next appointment right?
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Reminds me of this…
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CM, its actually quite an interesting analysis of the human psyche. I watch a lot of the air crash investigation series and you won’t belive some of the basic mistakes that can be made in the cockpit sometimes particularly with regards to communication. I think there have been situations where co pilots don’t speak up because of an authoritative environment. Even if the plane still crashes. People don’t like speaking up for fear of potentially upsetting someone even if they know they’re correct. Even if they’re about to crash. Remarkable really.
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I think something will have to change after this Sean. It’s such a fundamental failure. Ideally we’d maybe see the introduction of an automatic system though that may cause consistency issues with it being adopted part way through a season. But at the very least, there have to be some structural changes.
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Maybe he would have been a squad player or impact player under Sir Alex. But Utd have bought that badly for so long he’s probably the best they’ve got there and he’s been rewarded accordingly with the contract. So he’s now more under the limelight. So in that sense, he’s maybe another symptom but not a cause of the whole debacle going on at Utd.
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Yes there have been poor derisions before with VAR, but sorry this is more than that. This is a failure of even the most basic of competences as you can get. This incident didn’t really happen on the pitch it happened in the VAR HQ. And all the lines of protection failed. This can’t just be shrugged off. Something fundamental has to change. There is a lack of leadership and communication there for me which needs addressing. I also don’t quite get why the automatic system was rejected?
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Don’t worry. A review will take place. Lessons will be learnt (until they have to be learnt again). And everything will be fine. Does anything in this country work anymore? 🙄
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Heres the apology 🙄
https://x.com/MiguelDelaney/status/1708199378274361529?s=20
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Oh I’m furious now. The gods have really had it for us today. There needs to be a serious investigation into VAR after this.
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I suspect there’ll be an apology from the PGMOL after the game about that offside. Which will be about as much use to us as a handbrake on a canoe.
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