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Disagree somewhat about preseason Sean. In the seasons we’ve had a very good preseason, we’ve usually kicked on from it and it’s propelled us to have a very good season. Last season we only lost one pre season game. This preseason we’ve already lost two games (as soon as we’ve faced anyone decent). And you can already sense the poor momentum we now have in the camp, particularly given our front 3 (and how important they are) and the fact they’ve all been recently involved in the Copa America or African Cup of Nations. Unless we freshen up, I can already see a mediocre start to the season ahead.
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Bale, another British player that has hugely failed to win over the Madrid fans despite his successes. At Madrid, personality and stature strikes me as being as equally important as talent. Beckham, probably the only recent British player to win over their fans (even though he arguably had less talent than Bale).
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Certainly didn’t help Nine, but had they kept it more like the hub it was, I think a lot more would have come back (which could have further boosted revenues). Instead they focussed more on the instant posting side, but with a lot less to drive it.
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TT lost its way because it’s raison d’être was all about being a hub of the latest news, developments, comment, featured opinion and posted discussion pages – i.e. it wasn’t just about posting – it was all the other things just mentioned that then drew people in to post about things and interact with the site. Ever since that hub was lost, it’s not surprising it’s pretty much died a death – it’s like putting in the cart, but leaving the horse out altogether – there is no longer anything to drive and develop the site forwards. If someone had the time to recreate such a hub again, they may get something going again.
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I think with regard to Coutinho, like most transfers, it was a question of who was using who more between club and player. In an ideal world, what you want is both parties to use each other to the same extent, but if one side uses the other more, it usually ends badly. In this case Barcelona were clearly the more assertive party in the transfer (though one might also argue desperate) and went for him, and Coutinho simply felt when the opportunity arose, he couldn’t turn it down, so he went, without thinking more deeply about how/where he’d fit in exactly. Unless Liverpool could get him cheaply, there’s not much point to the move as has been alluded to in the posts above. Interesting looking back at most Liverpool transfers in the Klopp era and almost all have been equally as assertive as the club was in their pursuit of them and have thus hit the ground running – apart from Keita it seems, who took almost a season to develop – again, he hasn’t appeared to be the most assertive player in that regard.
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Ed, I suspect Man Utd went down the “add-ons” route to spread the cost. Apparently £60m + add-ons has failed. Leicester basically saying that won’t wash with us, we want more upfront now. Expect something more like £70m + add-ons will get it done.
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I sympathise with Arsenal fans, but do these protests/open letters, etc ever make much difference?? At the end of the day (like Newcastle) the owners know the fans will still support the club no matter what, so they somewhat have them over a barrel.
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Well, quite so Nine. The structure still seems a long way off yet. And until Utd get that right, the waiting will go on.
Ed, as for Van Dijk’s international career, agree it’s only took off fairly recently. But perhaps he didn’t have the right manager and people around him in his earlier career. Either way, when he came to Liverpool he was already world class, which means he must have been world class for some time before it (you don’t just suddenly become it overnight). And Liverpool clearly saw something there, as did Southampton (who have had an excellent transfer record in recent years).
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Nine, if they need an immediate short term CB to help bridge the gap from where they are now to winning titles (i.e. not necessarily world class), then no problem with that (they presumably have a global scout network, so surely they could find various options and they found Vidic some years ago). And had Maguire cost around £35 million, Id agree it’s a very good deal for Man Utd. But up to £80 million tells me Man Utd see him as a player for the long term and lynchpin in their defence for the next 3/4 years. And I’m arguing they should be targeting a higher bar than that.
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Ed, according to this report VVD was being chased by us, City, Chelsea and Barcelona in 2017.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/12/25/man-city-closing-60m-deal-virgil-van-dijk/
As I say, I appreciate you need a CB but for me if you’re spending that kind of money on one, they need to be world class. Chucky may be teasing somewhat above, but he’s used two words in his posts: safe and status quo. Yes, he may be an improvement, but to where exactly? Top 4? A few domestic cup finals? May be. But not to where you should be wanting, imo. Bear in mind that Klopp turned Liverpool (who were arguably in a worse position when he took over than where you guys are now) and won the the CL in just over 3 years.
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Just to add, although Man Utd have got deep pockets, as Nine has alluded to they didn’t always back the manager when certain targets were requested. Who’s to say the owners in years to come will argue that enough money has been spent in area x, so we’re not spending money there??
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My point is this, when Klopp came into Liverpool, we were arguably desperate in certain areas. And many Liverpool fans grew increasingly disgruntled when we weren’t signing anyone over the years. But when we did spend significantly, we spent it on top, top quality. Now I concede Man Utd have bigger pockets than Liverpool did at the time, and I’m not saying Maguire is a huge mistake and there’s no logic to it. But the fact remains Man Utd are still spending huge amounts on players who are not top, top quality. Maguire may well steady the ship at the back and improve things. But should Man Utd not be aiming for higher than that?
Put another way, I’m not saying Maguire is a poor signing for where Man Utd are at. He isn’t. But my point would be when you spend big in a crucial area of the pitch – it’s not just for the now, it’s for the future. So any signing made now has to *also* be for the level you are aiming for, ie top, top level.
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Pogba, Sanchez, Falcao, etc were never Man Utd signings for me: they were somewhat desperate signings almost aimed more to make a statement more than anything. You look back under Fergie, and whilst they made the odd poor signing, you look at players like Rooney, Ferdinand, Vidic, Tevez, De Gea, Keane, Van Nistelrooy, Evra, etc. Those are Man Utd players and even if they looked short some seasons, they went through quite a few summers without spending much – better to wait for the right person and develop what you have – much as Klopp has done with Liverpool – he could have bought when we were short but he didn’t – he waited to buy the likes of Mane, Salah, Alisson, Fabinho, Van Dyke, etc. And it all paid off when it came together.
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Could the same of Maguire not be said of Lukaku when Man Utd bought him? Premier league proven, reasonable/good attributes but not top, top level. Not saying he won’t help Man Utd, but for me, Man Utd are still not buying Man Utd players.
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Let’s not forget all the TV money flooding in now too. Interesting stat that in the recent new deal, the overseas TV money proportion is now almost catching up with the domestic TV money (45% to 55%, via Swiss Ramble). Don’t be surprised if the overseas TV money eventually overtakes the domestic sooner or later.
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Nine, I really fear for Arsenal this season. They’re enduring a legacy of poor buys, have not been able to make much from player sales (rather they’ve let players run their contracts down), have seen very poor commercial growth compared to their rivals and have a very mixed bag of a playing squad with little natural fight and leadership in it. And they don’t now have the resources to spend their way out of trouble. They’re going to have to play the long game now like Liverpool did 4 years ago with Klopp.
Swiss Ramble pretty devastating here:
As Arsenal fans nervously await the outcome of this summer’s transfer window, I thought it might be interesting to look at why the club is facing more financial challenges these days. Some thoughts in the following thread #afcb
— Swiss Ramble (@SwissRamble) July 1, 2019
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We’ll see Nine, I’m not anti technology, just merely pointing inconsistencies in their own statements, and that in the advent of VAR, whilst we may see some improvements, there will also be flips sides (like longer games as Pagan has alluded to) – to actually improve something without compromising the original benefits is extremely difficult – it’s usually a trade off. And just a final point regarding rugby and cricket – they are much less fluid than football is.
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But with regard to offsides Nine, define “clear error”. To a linesman’s eye, Aguero was level with the Spurs defender in the CL QF. One could argue he was “clearly offside” in the video but the key question is whether it was a “clear error” in light of what the linesman saw? And if not, how does one then define “clear error”? Where does one draw the lines of acceptable and not acceptable error margin? Many accepted the Aguero decision because he was still shown to be offside, but as I said at the time, had VAR not been available, in the studio afterwards you could well imagine all the pundits looking at the decision before shrugging their shoulders and saying it was tight and you give the attacker the benefit of the doubt and hence the goal would have stood. But with VAR being somewhat more absolutist, the culture is changing and we’re now labelling a very tight decision as “clear” (when, in the context of the linesman’s eye, it wasn’t clear).
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Pagan, fair point and the article above also briefly mentions this, that there *is* a grey area in which a call would have to be made by the referee for very tight decisions. Whether the Virtual Reality stadium cameras (that Sky Sports used last season) could eventually give a more accurate perspective of exactly where players’ knees, chests, etc are with regards to tight offsides I don’t know, but I agree there is currently a limit on how far you can determine accurately whether a player is offside or not for marginal situations. But I was commenting more from the perspective that I don’t think football offsides were ever meant to be determined at such a minute level anyway (even if the technology was there). At the end of the day, we want the technology to rectify howlers, not rule the game down to the inch (or less).
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(2/2) Just to add, if we are going to be absolutist about such things, what about an attacker who is ruled offside by the linesman but is later proved not to be? The following article (albeit an old one now in terms of where VAR is) is still interesting – it mentions that linesmen should delay raising the flag to get by this potential problem and that it can be checked later if a goal is scored. But all this is adding more and more for linesmen to think about when making decisions. That is not helpful or healthy for them.
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