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Big second half ahead…
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Keita has shown glimpses of what we hope he can do Mak, but nothing more. Klopp has recently admitted that he’s only just started to grasp the English language. So fingers crossed he can now get an injury free run in the side and start delivering. Cautiously optimistic about him, but we’ll see…
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The problem is as I said on the other thread is that we are up against almost footballing perfection the way Guardiola plays the game. And the premier league points system rewards bolder teams. Anytime I watch City, I never ever doubt their ability to score at least a few goals in a game, no matter who the opposition – defensive teams or attacking teams, home or away. We can all rightly praise how good we are, and we know without Guardiola we’d have won last year and would probably have the league wrapped up by February this season. But he is here and he’s raised the bar to such an extent we have to be ultra critical of our team and how it can find an edge on City.
And I think this is all linked to our midfield, particularly in these big away games. Is it really too much to expect at least one of our midfielders to drive in to the opposition and so free up space for our front 3 or even shoot and score a goal? Remember, we never replaced Coutinho – who popped up with big goals at big times for us. Last season we were all waiting and hoping for Keita to deliver. And the same to some extent, is true again this season.
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Poch I think has let himself be used by the club. The long contract has done nobody any favours, he knew what he was signing up for, he can’t now moan about his situation, it was fairly predictable. All the while his reputation has taken a hit. But he’s obviously got well paid for it. I suspect he’ll go abroad. As for Spurs, has anything really significantly changed over the last decade bar becoming a more consistent top 4 club? Indeed are the fans paying for the curse that top 4 brings – it brings in revenues for the club from the business side point of view, but it doesn’t really need to go for the bigger trophies because financially, it doesn’t make much difference. See also Arsenal under Wenger, see also Man Utd since Fergie left. The success isn’t really there, but the revenues still are. Top 4 should be a stepping stone, but all too often it becomes the final destination.
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Oh I’m pretty much with you on Henderson Mak, I was looking at it more to explain why I think Klopp has used him so much and why I think he’s been criticised more than the other players I mentioned, though he can be useful in high press games. In some ways you saw the best and worst of him tonight. He looked quite good in parts of the first half with his passing because he had more space in midfield. But second half was dire – he was the complete opposite of his supposedly steady solid performances in midfield – giving it away and running like a headless chicken but unable to win it back, so much so that Klopp had to bring him off.
Thought Roy Keane was very good the other night in terms of what should generally be expected from a midfielder, if you didn’t see it:
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Mak, as I said on a TT thread about Henderson some months ago, I think a lot of managers, particularly foreign ones, like having this extra and tactical player in the midfield. The Busquets player if you like. A player in the middle to keep it rolling over and keep possession which also makes the midfield quite packed – it’s something Lampard alluded to when asked why himself and Gerrard failed in the middle for England. Because teams like Spain had more midfielders and easily dominated England. And indeed Fergie evolved his game to use Carrick for a similar role. And in some ways Scholes was similar. And many foreign players simply could not believe it when England basically pushed Scholes out to the left and snubbed Carrick completely. So on the surface, there’s a cultural problem perhaps here with warming to these kinds of players. But why did Carrick and Scholes, not get the same criticism as Henderson? Well, Scholes had many other attributes with his passing and goals as we all know. And I think with Carrick, he simply had more creative midfielders around him that helped take care of the more creative side. We don’t. So I think that’s partly why Henderson gets more criticism, though some of it is justified, and Matip almost showed him up at the weekend with the effective forward passes he made whilst Henderson was pointing to play it safe.
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Threeps, I’m afraid in this era where Guardiola has effectively reached footballing perfection with regards to his philosophy, we have to deal with that. Any other era, we’d all be out toasting how great we are – and rightly so. But the bar is where the bar now is. And “kept fighting” for the league, as impressive and admirable as it is, ain’t the same as winning the league.
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Threeps, for the record I’ve been concerned about the midfield for some time. It’s what prevented us beating City last season, and is what will prevent us beating them again this season if we don’t improve. Guardiola & City have raised the bar, we have to deal with that.
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He’s a good player Sean, but I just think we’re better suited to having more pacey box to box players in there with the way we play.
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Nine, wouldn’t like to play Chelsea at the moment.
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Fabinho is certainly the kind of player we’ve been missing and has undoubtedly helped. But I just don’t think he’s *that* good I’m afraid. He, like the rest of the midfield, just gives the ball away too easily for me and gets too easily bypassed. Milner certainly steadied the ship when he came on. I think we’re crying out for a player like Kante – someone with the speed that can cope with our speed of play, i.e. both create and defend – being that insurance policy.
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Napoli draw at Genk. Good result for us.
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Shouldn’t have needed conceding 3 to wake us up.
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Deary me…think we’ve all got a bit cocky. Pride comes before a fall as they say.
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They look like a Klopp B side this lot. Quite impressed with the forward Hwang there. Good goal.
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Just watching the Pochettino interview. You’d have thought he’d just lost the game narrowly the way he spoke, saying repeatedly that Bayern were clinical, almost appearing quite relaxed about it all. Is Poch ultimately too soft? As impressive as the CL run was last season, Spurs haven’t won an away game in the premier league since January. So there have been worrying signs there for some time now.
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With regards to Poch, whilst it’s all very ordered and organised (and pretty effective) my problem with them is that they seem to lack a real personality on the pitch with the way they play. They just don’t seem to play off the cuff enough. Yes money obviously helps, but then you look at Klopp and even in his first part season at Liverpool he got them to two finals. There was an immediate impact and the club suddenly had personality again. In some ways, he reminds me a bit of Benitez. That’s certainly not a slur on Benitez, who is obviously a very good manager, and I will always fondly remember (and who is tactically still one of the best in the business). But I think with the way the games gone in recent years, you need to be very expressive now to get to the very very top.
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Working out whether either team will actually turn up tonight is pretty difficult. I usually go for a draw when I can’t work it out.
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Mandzukic being linked again to Man Utd, possibly in January. I really don’t see the problem. Why not? Ibrahimovic had a good impact and cost very little. Worth a shot, though I’d also consider a look at Dzeko. Still banging them in for Roma, and always rated him at City.
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The “concern” is Mak that this is not something new. We saw this in many of the draws last season where we just lacked the panache to turn a game around. I mean the way we just kept recycling the ball between defenders, full backs and the midfield on Saturday just wasn’t good enough. Yes these teams can be hard to break down but we’ve got to be quicker with our passing, we have to run and drive forward – even if it’s very congested you at least draw the foul and gain territory. But we did virtually none of that. It’s was obviously good that Klopp did make a few personnel and tactical changes which helped later in the game. But we still generally need a lot more from the midfield. We’ll see what Ox and Keita can do if they can stay fit.
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