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I suspect the manner of the result will determine whether the Utd board see the situation as “not as bad as we thought” if a fairly positive performance/result, or “much worse than we thought” if a very bad performance/result. It will be a good indicator of exactly where Utd currently are under Solskjaer. My guess is that it will be somewhere in between. But I think the axe falling is inevitable at some point. The one thing I’d worry about from Utd’s point of view is the board getting caught with their trousers down whilst talking to a new prospective manager whilst Solksjaer is still in charge, much like Spurs some years ago when they were caught talking with Ramos whilst Jol was still in charge. Never a good look.
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It’s certainly the case that Liverpool have sometimes struggled to deliver in the big away games they’ve had, certainly when trying to create chances which is why I continue to have concerns about our midfield. But with regards to Utd, the problem for them is that even if Solksjaer has a game plan to stifle us like last season, does he still command enough authority to properly execute it? I’m sure the players will somewhat turn up, but somewhat isn’t good enough.
I tend to agree with Threeps, unless Liverpool have a big off day, it should be a win for them. Just looking at the recent international results. Granted there was quite a bit travelling, most of the last games were played on Monday so there should be a good few days for the players to still prepare. Also apparently Salah never featured for Egypt and was allowed to rest over the last week or so. So no excuses for him. I’d definitely be wary of playing Allison though, even if deemed fit, for such a game.
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I still very much rate Mourinho, but I can’t think of a less suitable marriage than Levy & Mourinho.
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Problem for Spurs, is what is the perception going to be of the club from Maddison and Chilwell’s point of view if they offload their big players? Buying these two players now is far too late, this should have been done a season ago. They’ll just be seen as a selling club. And to turn the tables somewhat, why aren’t Leicester trying to sign bigger players to try and hold on to what they have and build up? – particularly when many of the other big clubs are in transition. Why are they effectively waiting for bids to come in for 2 of their senior players?
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I think the FA “suits” also have a lot to answer for in their decision making. After the tactical naivety of Keegan, they had a rush of blood to the head and appointed Sven, a much more tactical manager but one not really suited to knockout tournament football. Then there were the calls to go back English after that failed and they appointed McClaren, someone who at that point had no where near the experience needed. That unsurprisingly failed. Then they made another reactive decision by opting for another very tactically experienced manager in Capello. That didn’t go terribly well for similar reasons to Sven, and I think that burnt their fingers in terms of appointing foreign managers again, at least for the foreseeable future. So they’ve opted for Hodgson, Allardyce & Southgate ever since and stayed English. Whilst I’m very much with Pagan’s plans for the long term as regards to developing our own coaches (something Spain invested heavily in some years ago of which they later reaped the rewards), I just think in the mean time we could find a better manager in the world pool of talent to take us forward – if we got our criteria right and stopped looking at very tactical managers.
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Pagan, saved you some leg work:
Spain La Liga2
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/segunda-division/trainervergleich/wettbewerb/ES2
Germany Bundesliga2
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/2-bundesliga/trainervergleich/wettbewerb/L2
France Ligue2
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ligue-2/trainervergleich/wettbewerb/FR2
Italy Seria B
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/serie-b/trainervergleich/wettbewerb/IT2
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I think it’s a cultural problem – I agree that managers really need to go abroad to gain more experience. Bobby Robson did. Terry Venables did. But we just don’t tend to see it very often. English is obviously a global language and there’s less onus on us to learn other languages. And if you’re a manager like Dyche or Howe and you’ve got a comfortable job then why risk jumping off at the deep end and making a name for yourself somewhere else in a foreign country? You can understand why they don’t – but then, they can’t really complain when they keep getting overlooked for bigger jobs. A similar thing may be said of Bale with regards to the language which has perhaps exacerbated his problems at Madrid. If you’re to have sustained success abroad and really make a name for yourself, you have to also embrace the culture and language. You cant just go half in.
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Let’s be honest here, Southgate, nice chap I’m sure that he is, is only manager because there’s really no other British candidates, so he’s there by default. Is he really the kind of guy that can lift and command a dressing room? Not for me. And that’s particularly pertinent given that England have always lacked that togetherness in recent decades. Last best England side I saw is still under Venables at Euro 96 – that was the last time the players seemed to actually enjoy playing together. And what exactly is the game plan with Southgate? A bit like with Hodgson, I can’t quite work it out. The best England sides have been the more expressive ones.
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Banjo, I’ve seen paint dry quicker.
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Shame Maddison had to pull out the squad.
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Is the situation really retrievable for Poch though? Whilst it’s not all down to him (although he did know what he was signing up for), the problem is the pressure increases on the manager in these situations causing fraught relationships with the players. And Spurs can’t just immediately offload these players tomorrow and suddenly replace them. So how does this situation turn itself around in the next few months if left as it is? All the while all the different parties reputations are taking a hit. Hence as Pagan said, the departures may be resolved by mutual consent.
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For me, the refs have got to start using the pitch side monitor to check their decision themselves so there’s no damage done to their integrity if they then change the decision. At the moment, the VAR ref does not want to disrespect the on pitch ref so they hide behind the “clear and obvious” line so relieve them from having to overturn a decision.
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CM, it’s a good point about Pep’s intensity taking its toll. You also look at how he badgers players after a game even if they’ve thrashed the opposition, telling them where they still need to improve. It’s such seriousness and demands that I think begin to wear thin psychologically after a while. Brief story I heard that this could also be the case with Poch at Spurs what with the demands and routines he puts the players through. As for Klopp, I think it’s slightly different. I think because he has such charisma and humour, it helps keep the players fresher psychologically speaking and gives him greater longevity. I think at Dortmund, there were still obviously physical demands but less psychological problems and let’s not forget in his last season at Dortmund he still brought them back from 18th at one point to finish 7th at the end. So not convinced he lost the dressing room, just that it was time for him to move on to pastures new. But he was at Dortmund for 7 years. So is the case with managers like Pep that the light that burns twice as bright burns half as long?
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It’s a fair point HH. I don’t buy its all injuries with City. They still had more than enough quality in that side today to get something. I just think it’s hard to stay motivated for them after last season – but then it begs the question – why no Foden, a guy who’s going to be full of beans being a home grown player with top quality according to his manager? I hear what Brian is saying about looking after youngsters, but Foden has seen just 10 minutes of action in the premier league this season. This is how Fergie maintained motivation for his teams to keep going no matter what they had previously won by bringing in such players. The answer, or part of it, is staring Pep right in the face.
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I’m not even sure Man Utd would get a new manager bounce.
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Didn’t see that coming. Odd season for City so far. I think after the two incredible seasons City have had, it’s extremely hard to maintain that level of motivation. I did expect City to tail off a bit from last season, but I didn’t expect them to this early. Obviously not over, but Liverpool have to be ruthless now.
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It’s a fair point Sean, perhaps some of those basketball scores at Liverpool are still in his head and he’s just curbed things a bit, particularly away from home. But it’s still early days for him at the club.
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Given what’s happening at the bigger clubs this season, you can see why Leicester wasted no time in snapping up Rodgers, who is a manager with the perfect expressive philosophy for this era and has the substance to back it up. Indeed Gary Lineker said of Rodgers when he was unveiled as Liverpool manager that it was a shrewd move because he totally got the way the game was evolving.
Klopp is better overall tactically, but Rodgers does appear a more rounded manager now. I suspect a few clubs now looking on enviously at Leicester.
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Special mention to Milner. He steadied the ship when he came on vs Salzburg. And again today two huge moments with that incredible pass and the penalty. Such a reliable player that almost always delivers something in a game. Still going strong at 33. Yet he always goes under the radar and players like Henderson seem to get more attention. Strange.
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