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Sean, it’s actually a very rare thing to see a manager adapt and dust themselves down after struggling in particular areas. About half way through his time, he began bemoaning the physical nature of the league and it was at that point I began to lose faith in him because people’s ego’s tend to get the better of them and they refuse to believe they need to do something different (a course we’ve seen followed all too often in the past with other managers). But Klopp had the humility to change and adapt and identified exactly what was needed – even at the expense, as you say, of letting a big player go in Coutinho. That I believe, was probably the biggest moment in his career – and I think he’s developed hugely as a manager from that. It was undoubtedly the turning point in our quest for the title.
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Klopp fundamentally targeted players that put a shift in as much as they were talented. Half way through his time, he effectively admitted he was struggling with the physical aspect of the league. He identified Van Dijk, and the rest is history. So he knew the ingredients needed for a title winning team and then adapted to what was a different league. The best find a way and adapt. Finally, a four year plan that came to fruition…because we had someone who knew exactly what was needed. And a huge budget wasn’t necessarily one of them.
Klopp, October 2015…
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This season…is our season.
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Looks like we’re picking up where we left off. All workman like, but lacking spark.
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Printing movements against slavery on clothes made in sweatshops by underpaid labour…
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I think what is most important, and the thing Klopp seems to be doing, is not so much identifying the best player in the world, but the most effective. I think Salah epitomises this. He’s not quite looked the superstar he did in his first season, and some do get frustrated with him now. But if you look at the shift he puts in, his movement and work rate, he still almost always makes something happen. And in some way, it’s why Klopp went for Ox. Not so much a superstar, but a real worker who will work just as hard in tracking back as he does going forwards. And Fergie did a similar thing at Man Utd. If you broke a lot of those highly successful teams down, quite a few of those players you wouldn’t have labelled as world class. What really made those Utd teams were players like Rooney and Tevez – first and foremost, real hard working players that put a shift in. And obviously had the skill to boot. (I know many would label Rooney as world class, but I also don’t think people saw the work rate he put in). And what a fabulous player Tevez was to have in your team. Again maybe not a superstar, but damn effective. Indeed I remember many Utd friends at the time saying that Rooney was actually far more important than the superstar Ronaldo was in their team, with Ronaldo being more the icing on the cake, rather than the core piece of the jigsaw. And perhaps you could argue when Utd bought in players like Veron, they bought him in simply because they could rather than whether they actually needed him. So we know the dangers of such things.
So I’m happy for Klopp to obviously keep to what is a very good formula, but we obviously do need to ensure we stay at the top, which is arguably more difficult than getting to the top.
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Problem in this Brian is that both sides who have broken the rules think they are justified because of their politics hence each side has still criticised the other for breaking the rules because both sides think they are more worthy than the other. It’s all very worrying, and I’m afraid a sign of ever deeper instability in the world. I think we’re also seeing the 21st century unfolding before our very eyes, with the West in general, in decline, with China the emerging and rising power.
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Sean, I think there were many legitimate concerns over us & Klopp until he brought Van Dijk in and kudos to Klopp in finally adapting to the league and identifying what we needed.
Threeps, you may well be right about Werner. I’m not outraged about it just to be clear, just a touch concerned that we’re getting too rigid with our policy. I accept Klopp has shown how powerful the “less is more” policy is and obviously hope all is in hand for the future.
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That’s all reasonably argued Threeps, but we do need competition for the front 3. If someone comes in and proves just as good if not better than one of our front 3, then surely Klopp will play him? So he wouldn’t necessarily have to wait some years to get in the side. Also we can’t get too rigid with the way we play and being fearful of disturbing the “front 3”. There have been quite a few times where several of the front 3 haven’t had great games but we don’t really have anyone else to bring on or that would help keep them on their toes. To rely on Origi or even Elliot, etc is clinging to an awful lot of hope and not how ruthless winning clubs tend to act. There is much to admire with Klopp as I say, and all managers have their strengths and weaknesses. But as good as it is to have a close knit group with a strong mentality, I do fear it might all go the way it did at Dortmund if we’re not careful.
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I think with the shortfall in income, we will see the “game 39” touted even more now (where league games would be played abroad), as clubs look to find ways to make up the lost income, as soon as things get back to normal in most places. And if the clubs see that fans can stomach watching games on TV but in empty stadia, they’ll deem that they’ll be able to stomach league games being played abroad.
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For Klopp, less is more, which is a big plus when you look at the mentality he can develop. But we saw at Dortmund what could happen when you run a smaller group into the ground. A key question to ask then here, is whether this Klopp strategy can work alongside a simultaneous rebuild strategy to keep the team at the top, or whether it’s somewhat at odds with it. If you like, will it be the case that the light that burns twice as bright burns half as long? And then you have FSG, who HH touches on with regards to them probably being quite happy and relaxed to sit on the sidelines and rely on Klopp bringing success on more of a shoestring, without pushing him or showing leadership to ensure we stay at the top. This constant talk you now hear that “oh, but we couldn’t guarantee Werner the minutes”…I’m sorry, but that’s part and parcel of keeping the side at the top – nobody should be thought of as irreplaceable in our current line up or untouchable. You bring new stars in for them to gradually push out the established player. That’s what ruthless winning clubs do, no player is bigger than the club. You don’t wait for the established player to leave himself and then leave a big hole in the side. That was the story of our lives in the pre-Klopp era, when big stars left leading to another backward step.
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Liverpool’s record generally been very good. But can’t help but think they’re going a bit ‘Arsene Wenger’ in the transfer market and being too stubborn, whilst leaving the door wide open for their competitors. But time will tell…
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Chelsea have now agreed a deal in principle to sign Timo Werner from RB Leipzig.
— Sky Sports News (@SkySportsNews) June 4, 2020
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Brian, I accept that government can only do so much with some things, but I think it clear now our government never really had a plan. It happily let flights come in from China & Northern Italy at the start of the year when they knew there was a serious problem. Then they seemed to accept they’d missed the opportunity to keep a lid on it and were tacking to the approach taken by Sweden, which although controversial, was probably more sensible at that point given the level of spread already here. But then they panicked when the Imperial modelling came in, and, claiming to be the new party of the NHS, they protected it all costs to a degree where it forced untested patients into care homes where the virus then spread rapidly, whilst also suspending treatments of other serious conditions – the deaths of which could be around 15,000 last time I looked. They spread so much fear, that even their own ministers and advisors got tangled up in their own strict laws. So we’ve had the worst of both worlds, whilst severely damaging the economy. And now they’re trying to close the stable door 6 months after the horse has bolted. All the while they’ve lost any kind of public authority with policing their measures. They’re all over the place.
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I think we need to get a grip of the situation. As far as I know, very few people can still attend funerals of loved ones, which must be very difficult and painful for them. Only just recently, Dominic Cummings was being lynched by the media for breaking lockdown rules, whilst the BBC were also reporting from hospitals who were fearing a second wave. Now the same media is happily cheering on densely populated protests of which the police seem to be standing on the side lines watching by. We also have the situation that zoos have to remain closed, but indoor shops can reopen soon. But anyone coming in to the country now has to quarantine for 14 days. The public seem to be leading the government out of lockdown, with the government struggling to keep up. What an absolute shambles…
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CM, I think in both those big events, although outdoors, they were still quite densely packed so it wasn’t quite the same as normal outdoor events.
Where most countries have failed is to protect the vulnerable groups, and several lockdown actions have actually worsened this problem rather than helped it. I notice nobody mentions Japan in all this, who have one of the densest populations in the world, and have just 892 deaths, and contrary to reports didn’t lockdown as severely as others. Belgium did lock down severely and has one of the largest death tolls per million in the world. Indeed there seems little correlation between actions taken by government and death rate. In most countries, we see the virus come in, spread through the population, causing significant deaths if passing through vulnerable groups, and then disappearing. Professor Gupta, of Oxford University, argues the virus is on it’s way out and that the driving force of the pattern seen is down to the built up levels of immunity in a population, which may be higher than thought because people may have built up more immunity with having had other coronaviruses. And she also points out the reliability problems with antibody tests. The R rate is principally dependent on the level of immunity in a population, so to calculate an accurate R value without a knowledge of this is pretty difficult.
Interesting interview for those interested:
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Not everyone thinks there will be a second wave as the article below argues. Interesting those that condemn people for comparing the coronavirus to flu, are happy to compare it to flu when spreading fears of a second wave as is seen with flu. This thing seems to spread in tight clusters indoors as opposed to outdoors. Indeed when Governor Cuomo did a survey on where patients contracted the virus in New York, he found 66% had been sheltering at home. So lockdown does not appear to have helped with that. Also, the health chief of Norway has now admitted a lockdown was probably not necessary. But the mainstream media do not appear to be reporting these things, they just keep spreading fear. Be careful by all means, but let’s learn things about this as well, particularly given the dire economic consequences and lockdown consequences that will also cause many deaths.
Coronavirus: Second wave of deadly virus described as ‘very unlikely’ by Professor Hugh Pennington
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Very sorry to hear that. Always struck me as a very pragmatic and civilised poster.
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Sean, I have a bit more sympathy with Cumminngs who was acting as a parent for the welfare of his child as opposed to Neil Ferguson who was having an affair. The whole problem for me is the government put too much fear out there. I mean some of the messages put out there saying just by going outside you’ll effectively kill people, was a bit ridiculous. I know many are understandably angry about the hypocrisy, and I sympathise with them too who made sacrifices not to see other family members, but as I say, the root of the problem was the ridiculous fear put out by government which the government itself has now got tangled up in.
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There is apparent risk to footballers heading the football over a long period of time but I don’t see big campaigns to stop heading in the game. This virus is obviously nasty but it isn’t as fatal as first feared, particularly to the younger and healthier population. Where most governments have failed is in protecting the vulnerable groups and indeed in the lockdown actions taken by the government by clearing people from hospitals to care homes without testing them, some measures have arguably done more harm than good. Meanwhile the economy is being destroyed which will kill more people in the long term not to mention a drop in funding to the NHS from a damaged economy.
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