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Mikus, fair enough re cups but seems clear to me the priority is champs league qualification, and while you can have multiple priorities, you can only have one number one.
Conte especially does not give a shit about cups relative to league games and final league position. If a manager knows he can’t fight on all fronts his priority will show and translate in selection and performance.
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Mikus, you are missing the point.
Please explain why spurs should and could do better than aim for top 4, with respect to their competition. Also how many clubs have fans who also have a right to be so demanding?
I can understand why you demand it of pool, because your club when run right can deliver more than top 4. Why can you demand it of spurs?
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“But are you then suggesting Utd should expect a title challenge if the wages would be higher than Chelsea despite us knowing Utd’s ability is less than their wage bill suggests based on recent performances?”
No Ed, I am suggesting that you should not expect to win a league unless you have a wage bill which is close to the the top. Utd should be challenging, Chelsea should be challenging. The longer we continue not to the greater the failure of the clubs first and foremost, as you rightly say it takes more analysis to judge a manager.
However as clarified, I only think it’s relevant to establish base expectations ie only expect to compete with top “x” number of clubs consistently if your wage bill is consistently in the top “x” of teams.
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And Potter ain’t building this team btw, clear as day
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Yeah I clarified this Ed, in terms of setting expectations we shouldn’t expect more than our relative wage budget would project imo, other than that I wouldnt refer to it.
It’s about trying to find an objective basis for expectations, it’s far from an arbitrary stat used to further an agenda and I brought it up in relation to expectations that can justifiably held against spurs and their next manager.
Can you find one single stat that is available pre season that correlates with final league positions as consistently as wage bill does? I can’t which is why I refer to it.
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BTW, are you implying in your posts above that you think chelsea have done good business? You talk about another manager with a bloated squad and then contrast with Potter as though its different? Sounds the same to me, unless of course the new signings prove themselves to be of considerable quality and good value.
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Not entirely agreeing but I am to a degree.
The wages should be proportional to quality in the squad and so if chelsea and spurs both have wage bill of 150m and one club has clearly better players then that club is getting more bang for its buck.
Now of course if it was the case next season for sure the expectations would still be much greater on chelsea because of many of the reasons you cite but over 5 or 10 years it would become redundant and actually in shirt term you are ignoring the fact that we don’t know yet if the players are worth it and just like spurs, the team hasn’t been built for one manager.
Let’s not try to use the chelsea as a base for anything here because we both know how crazy and exceptional the circumstances at the club are right now. But ultimately if we go in to the season with a wage bill considerably lower than city and utd next season I won’t he expecting a title unless the players prove otherwise, if we go in to the season spending the same or more on wages the club is obliged to deliver on it. If they persist on quantity over quality we will continue to underachieve.
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And Ed, regards the expectations, my opinion is you can’t expect more than the resources provided would deserve relative to opposition.
If you don’t have wages comfortably in top 4 can’t expect to comfortably finish top 4. Spurs don’t.
Based on the resource at Chelsea we of course should be challenging next season, although we will see what the squad and wage bill is relative to the opponents at that time.
At this time it is clear the chelsea is massively underachieving.
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1. Failed to improve the club’s playing style
Subjective and redundant relative to results, ie only relevant if team could be more competitive playing a different way and neither of us can assert anything here.
2. Hasn’t improved Spurs’ position
Wrong, he took them back to champs league and as I argue top 4 is spurs ceiling I don’t think any manager will have failed if they don’t better that.
3. Has come nowhere near winning any trophies
True but hadn’t been there long and again against better equipped opponents.
4. Has alienated the squad, evidenced by his recent rant
His recent rant was his last and irrelevant. They were still chasing 4th until he flipped his lid and could still finish in top 4.
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Yeah banjo, let’s talk about Wrexham….bet the only ones that come close to their wage budget in vanarrama is Notts County 😆
Glory hunter 🤣
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But that being said, if Conte has failed with spurs, ten hag needs to win league with utd next season or come damn close otherwise we are not being fair and reasonable in how we talk about expectations. Chelsea should too. In fact unless pool, utd and chelsea start achieving what we should none of us should criticise spurs under conte without acknowledging that our teams have underperformed to a greater degree.
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Ed you are right it’s more a judge of how the club overall has performed relative to budget and quality of the manager is a significant but small part of that.
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Yeah just same likely same source don’t know why there such a discrepancy
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Those marca wages are 50% higher across the board than all the other lists I am finding so they are likely either wrong our account for more than just first team wages. The highest seems around 200m mark everywhere but marca have it at 350m it’s way off.
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Wow Ed have wage bills dropped across the board that much in a few years?
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Yeah Ed, they change transfer window to transfer window, what is consistent though is that for last decade relative to opposition utd have always been 1st or 2nd and well above the average and in great position to compete.
Be interesting to see what chelsea’s is once the summer is done. Bringing in all the new players before offloading others has created the highest wage bill in probably prem league history.
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That’s it banjo, Kings of the underachievers at number 1 😆
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Yeah I agree mate, clubs like spurs have to spend smarter than those above them to stand a chance but that’s easier said than done.
I also agree he was wrong fit I think we were all in consensus that it would likely end the way it did, with conte unable to accept being an also ran and throwing the club under the bus.
He was completely out of order in his last press conference and I don’t think anyone in their right mind could appoint him after that…however, in my opinion he was right in what he said no matter how wrong it was for him to say it and behave as he did. Spurs fans should not forget it.
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We can all identify good players but its thecwages offered thst play masdive part in attracting them and it’s not just finding mikus it’s keeping them too, the wages you offer are the determining factor. They done well keeping kane but it restricts investment elsewhere at same time.
Modric, bale, walker etc all top class, none could be kept and its not spurs fault imo.
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The thing is, comparing a teams respective wage budget and league finish is a very effective way of determining if a club has under achieved or over achieved.
Chelsea are severely underachieving as a club, we all know that, and there is a multitude of reasons for that which are ultimately irrelevant to the final conclusion, we have underachiever big time.
Pool have too this season.
The biggest underachievers of the last decade are utd who have consistently had a wage budget in top 1 or 2 but who have not once seriously challenged in that time nor consistently finished top 4. This shows severe inefficiency that is not news to any utd fan, but to consistently not have quality proportional to wage bill is shockingly bad.
Ten hag will get a lot of credit finishing top 4 while conte gets shat on for doing same with spurs with much less resource.
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