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God I am glad I am busier next week 🙂
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On the Basis of unsavoury moments, I know what you are alluding too and that’s me at the time being precious having not won trophies for years. Not right in conducting of Behaviour, but that’s all said and done.
Stop digging nil, what I am referring to is as recent as the super cup, that was not you being “precious having not won trophies for years” You had only a few months prior seen your team lift the CL.
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Nil, I have been posting on this thread all day and have seen nothing but good banter and discussion and very good understanding from everyone towards each other’s POV.
Nine has his opinion and it is a very reasonable one, he should be allowed to express it without worrying about offending anyone, he wasnt taking any digs at all.
You know I have always liked you and chatted to you on the other forum too nil, but I find it a tad ironic that you are moaning about unsavoury posts when the most unsavoury posts I have seen on this entire site were from yourself.
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Arsenal all the way for me nine, emery done it 3 times before, got arsenal to final at first attempt, I really fancy them
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Tugay, I remember jose celebrating a 1-0 victory at ewood park like he had won the world cup, I think Blackburn are a club that can re-establish themselves in the prem with good ownership. I am not up to date with whats going on with you, you said things were starting to look up a bit now, whats happening with rovers now mate, what has you most optimistic?
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Nine, just listening to a kid up the road playing footie with his little friend in garden and commentating while he plays. He just shouted “AND NEYMAR JUNIOR SCORES FOR WALES” ! His names Jack, next time I see him when walking my dog I’ll ask him if he knows who Gareth bleeding Bale is 🙂
Thought it was funny considering where this thread has gone.
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Hi Tugay, nice to see you mate. Yeah good timing that mate, shame with whats happened since for you. Terrible owners you deserve so much better as a club and fanbase.
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Ha,
I agree nine, when you have a local team that are in the football league that you could see regularly but you decide to instead go glory hunting, you are completely missing the point of what being a football fan is about.
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Good job things have improved considerably in that regard nine, but no wonder the match day experience and football fans developed such a bad reputation when you look at the history of it all. My choice was Cardiff and being amongst idiot drunk cardiff fans like my uncle, or following my heart and watching Gianfranco on the box, you think that was a close call? I have been teased since a teen for supporting chelsea, even my nans boyfriend from sunderland who was an old timer would not shut up about it, so I had every motivation to try to support cardiff and be more respected by traditional fans, but when it came down to it my love for chelsea far out weighed any concern I had for the opinions of others and always will.
BTW, my uncle attended every home game for cardiff, but I knew more about the club and squad than he did and I wasnt a Cardiff fan! He would be seen as a “proper” fan by many, but what attracted him to cardiff city was the opportunity to be part of a violent tribe and get sloshed, not to love football, and my feeling is that goes for many of the fans you would have classed as “proper fans” of years gone by simply because they attended every game.
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Agree with that Nine, if I grew up in a city or town with a football league club I almost certainly would have supported them.
Btw, what were you doing to risk prosecution you naughty boy? I will be honest, that part of being a fan never attracted me at all and if thats what being a proper fan is you can keep it mate, it was what I saw at Cardiff city. I dont want to be part of a army of hooligans, I want to watch a football team play football.
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I hear everything you say but generally speaking to be a proper football fan imo you have to regularly attend live games and there’s no excuse in supporting Manchester City if you can get to see Bristol City every week.
I 100% appreciate that POV nine, while not every football fan has the disposable income to be able to do that regularly, leaving watching on tv the best alternative, in general terms I do agree that a regular match goer is more of a traditional “proper fan” than someone who doesnt attend games. The problem with all this though is that we a trying to rationalise something that in essence is emotional. Who are you or I to tell a kid in Aberystwyth that they have to ignore the excitment and joy they feel when they see liverpool play on tv and instead they have to watch Aber in the welsh football league and bloody love it because thats what real football fans do!? Yes they dont have the connection with pool like the regular anfield fans do, but it should come as no surprise to anyone that it is impossible for the majority of pool fans to actually watch the games at anfield anyway. If you fall in love with a club it was not a rational choice, it was an emotional connection that developed outside of your control. That is not the case for plastics obviously, no one can excuse basing your allegiances on who is winning the most or who spends the most money, and there does seem to be an increase in those types of fans amongst millenials, and that is depressing no doubt. I even remember being disgusted by seeing other people in my home town starting wearing chelsea tops after first title win, but unlike you the disgust was not that a person could support a non local team, it was that this person is 99% likely not to even be a genuine football fan and is simply attaching themselves to chelsea like a fashion brand now they are successful.
Ultimately Nine I think if most kids were taken regularly to see their local team that connection would develop, but kids cant make this choice mate, and for many it is off the table as an option. All they have is what is on the box and if watching pool, utd or chelsea gives them something to look forward to and brings them the joy that watching chelsea on the box has brought me, then it is much better than nothing at all mate. Its even worth being called a non-proper fan for 🙂
Btw, I too watch every game live,those not on british tv are broadcast around the world and so every chelsea game can be watched live. My free time is scheduled around chelsea’s games and I never miss one. btw it is a criminal offence to watch 3pm kick offs online, Have you ever risked prosecution to watch the chels? Thats a proper fan mate 🙂
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Chucky, chelsea and city broke the mould through outside investment, that is the only way the monopoly of elite clubs can be broken, but the turkeys have cast their vote and sadly the majority voted for xmas ie FFP.
I am sure Fulham fans would love to think you are right, but they are not spurs banjo, never will be. they dont have the history, the fan base, or the sheer number of consecutive seasons in prem league required for spurs to have done what they have done. If your idea of football is that beautiful pyramid and the dream that anyone can get to the top, I am sorry to say but your football is already dead and aint coming back, a super league is a response to this, not the cause imo.
I dont like the idea of a super league banjo either, and I like the system we have, but things are changing fast and I get the feeling it is inevitable anyway.
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I completely understand nine.
TV and the Computer Age has changed all that people can now attach themselves to Clubs and follow every game on the internet from their Armchairs from wherever they live it might be progress but it’s not a great foundation for being a football fan imo.
Its not a great foundation for football itself nine, football was founded on local teams and grew as the teams grew, if football was invented today it would be impossible for it to be like it was or mean as much to people as it has done, as the few founding teams would have monopolised the tv audiences from the go. The game was never going to be able to survive as it was as soon as tv and advertising became factors.
Now while I will keenly read every nostalgic post offered by you and Brian, and share your disappointment at what is being lost, as we all know we can not rewind the clock here, we can only hope that we find a new balance which allows the lower tier clubs to survive and serve their communities whilst the elite clubs monopolise the tv audiences.
I was thinking as I was reading your post, but could a european super league actually be the answer to to this? I mean lets face it, Fulham and QPR are never going to challenge Chelsea, Arsenal or spurs. Bury and Bolton were never going to compete with utd and city. Its gone too far now. If you are a child you are bound to be more attracted to the more successful clubs. I personally think the elite clubs sodding off in to a superleague that was televised internationally would satisfy the suits that run the game and would capitalise on the global market and appetite for elite football. The remaining 99% of domestic clubs in england would remain as say the EFL, and we as fans can allow ourselves to have 2 teams, our super league club, and our EFL club. The cost of tickets at the superleague games, plus the limited seats plus geographical factors mean that the vast majority of fans of top teams will never see them live, the EFL would have to jump on this as their main promotional device, the EFL offers what the super league does not, the true traditional match day experience. And if we accept this change as fans and allow each other to have 2 clubs without ridicule, I think it could work.
There is a lot of money in the EFL, nowhere near PL, but lets not kid ourselves in to thinking there is not enough money for these clubs to survive, they can all survive if their owners are forced to run the club within its means and not purchasing clubs to bleed them dry or overspending in a naive desire to “get to the top” and hit the jackpot with PL money.
Another thing you need to consider nine is that some kids growing up do not have a local team in the football league they can relate to. I for example grew up in the Rhondda valleys in south wales, Cardiff my closest league club, then Newport, then Swansea. But I am not from Cardiff, I hate bloody Cardiff in truth, I am not from Newport or swansea, for me supporting one of those clubs is no different than if I supported Glasgow rangers, I feel no “local connection” To add to this I did go to see cardiff when I was a child with my uncle. It was horrible, the fans, the language, they didnt even care about the game it was abusing the other fans. All pissed out of their head, and shit football to boot. I was never ever going to go back voluntarily. Then my cousin who grew up in Oxford and was a chelsea fan through family came to stay, I was abut 9 or 10 around 1993/94. He was a fanatic and really got me in to chelsea, I liked football as a kid, everyone supported pool or utd in the valleys and I think it was just to be different that I started following chelsea. By the time they lost the fa cup final 4-0 to utd I knew I was a chelsea fan as I actually cried. You know the trajectory of the club from that point on, but I fell in love with Gullit, Zola, Di matteo all these great players I could see on TV that I would never see local, and while I live nowhere near London I was not going to have anyone tell me I am not a true fan when the emotions I feel towards chelsea are as real as any I have experienced. I have been to the bridge, but it was never possible as a regular thing because of the cost of travel and tickets. As much as us children of the nineties are a different breed of footie fans to those that come before, you cant blame us for that, but the same rules apply, once you love a club you can never ever turn it off, no matter if you watch them primarily on MOTD or from the stands.
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Can think of no greater tragedy than for a parent to lose a child, just horrible.
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Mak, will be my pleasure but I can not do this without a preface. Like I said Pearl Jam are one of the rare bands who actually sound better live than in the studio, but the main reason they are so great live is how broad their repertoire is. Their sets are like waves, they have slow moody songs, fast paced rockers, classic medium tempo rock songs, off beat and quirky songs. The reason I am saying this is that I cant really pick one song that could define them as a band as easily as I could say a Nirvana or Alice in chains. That being said I will give it a go. I am picking Unthought Known from their 9th studio album backspacer. It is not my favourite pearl jam song but it is one of the best produced and due to its structure is kind of like a mini pearl jam show in a song, although it never gets to the kind of pace a lot of their songs can reach live. The below is not an official Video, PJ rarely do them, this is a fan made video to go with the song, hope you enjoy mate.
You can listen to any of their albums on you tube or spotify, if you want to get a sense of their breadth as a band then listen to their second album – Vs, in full as it is one of the better produced albums and like I said showcases their diversity and will give you a better understanding of the different types of music they make.
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Forget the draw and VVD, here’s Cantona’s speech in full:
“As flies to wanton boys we are for the gods, they kill us for their sport.
“Soon the science will not only be able to slow down the ageing of the cells, soon the science will fix the cells to the state and so we will become eternal.
“Only accidents, crimes, wars, will still kill us but unfortunately, crimes, wars, will multiply.
“I love football. Thank you.”,
Pretentious sod, its not even that smart I mean, who wants to live forever? Freddie mercury couldnt figure it out so damned if I know, but I sure dont, the thought of having to listen to nonsense like this for eternity?
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You’re spot on re pearl jam Mak. Their music, and vedders voice are an acquired taste, and they make no effort to try to persuade anyone to acquire it. imo they have a ton of great songs that are great live but their albums are mediocre. They went on this weird self sabotaging phase after they got really big and deliberately made their 3rd album Vitalogy impossible to listen to, even if you were a fan, but it is packed with songs that are amazing live (you ever heard betterman live?). This trend kind of carried on, the albums were very blandly produced and mediocre, but as soon as they are live the songs are great.
I got acquired to them when I was 15, I had just started listening to Nirvana and my friends told me pearl jam were playing in cardiff. I went not knowing their music expecting this big elaborate rock set up with silly props and lights etc, when they came on stage it was just five dudes and their instruments and I fell in love with them immediately, the show was amazing. I quickly bought all their albums and was always disappointed with the studio versions of the songs, but live they are my favourite band in the world and believe me many bands respect what pearl jam have managed to do. They have a cult following second only to the grateful dead, who will pack stadiums and arenas all over the world every week of every year to see PJ time and time again. They do this because like even you recognise, PJ really respect and cherish their fans and the life they have been blessed to live. A genius move they made was realising that their fans loved them so much live they were buying poor quality recordings of the live shows, so they decided to release their live shows as official bootlegs and at one point in year 2000 I believe they had quite a few bootleg live albums in the billboard top 200 charts at the same time. I bought the Cardiff bootleg and played it more than any other album I have had. I also saw them headline Reading on the the last night in 2006 (placebo just before them who I love too)
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Have you heard Mad season Banjo? Mcready and Layne Staley
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Banjo, I love temple of the dog, Reach down and mcready’s epic solo and Times of trouble my fave’s
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Re Seattle Nine, the city was isolated and major bands hardly visited in the eighties. The young musicians and singers grew up idolising a lot of british artists and had to create their own scene based on their influences. Sabbath, the beatles, the who, even the sex pistols, all inspired the seattle bands. I personally think all great bands steal and borrow sounds and riffs and develop on them, its just the greatest bands have the better tastes of what to borrow and develop(led zep best example of this) I think most seattle bands, especially Soundgarden and Pearl Jam did this really well, and they both had amazing lead vocalists too in Cornell (rip) and Vedder. If you want to hear an amazing cover check out this by the late Cornell:
Pearl Jam still going, even if you’r not a fan check this song out from their last album. It would have made me cringe as a selfish teenager, but as an adult increasingly aware of my mortality and just how much I love those I love, it really moves me:
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