[Luckydestiny]

442, that was directed very specifically, ironic that you were talking about one upmanship eh?

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[Luckydestiny]

I still favour spurs for 3rd too banjo

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[Luckydestiny]

442, Can you please point out where I claimed you were not allowed to have an opinion on chelsea fans? It really annoys me when people respond to arguments that way, it is just pointless. Arguing against your opinion is not denying it 442, and if you claim an argument is stupid dont be surprised if those that disagree debate it with you, thats what it is about right?

Also why say “we see things differently” as though that it is supposed to surprise or enlighten me? I know we and most here see things differently which is why I engage in conversations and ask questions like “what would you do to tighten things up defensively if its not playing Kante deeper?” Because I know there will be other opinions and iseas that I cant think of and I want to know of them.

Like I said, all my posts to you since your initial post @11:10am have been fine, the only excuse for you treating me like this is that you are indeed holding a grudge, so you can shove your last paragraph where the sun dont shine because you are lying.

What was your name on old forum anyway, was it 442? Cant remember you at all. Only Chelsea fan I really got in to heated argument with was Ashcfc that I can remember, but who hasnt argued with him!? Oh and the wise one, of course, but again who hasnt argued with him?

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[Luckydestiny]

Brian,

I did a little fact finding, inspired by both the chat about Fernandinho and then watching Xhaka today, found a decent source here https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/fouls and searched by filtering for fouls committed by midfielders.

Turns out Fernandinho is 17th in list of top fouling midfielders (not just defensive mids, includes eriksen and de bruyne etc), with 40 fouls committed which could simply be read as he commits at least one foul per game.

What I find interesting about the list of 16 players that committed more fouls than him is that the aforementioned Xhaka and also pogba are the only players above him who play for teams in the top 6 last year.

I think it makes sense that the better the team, and the more of the ball your team has, the less tackles are needed to be attempted, and the less fouls should be made.

Interesting then that the team with the greatest ability to keep the ball and who have less attempted tackles has a midfielder who commits more fouls than any other of the defensive mids in the top 6 bar Xhaka (who is there because he is terrible and cant tackle) or Pogba who is there because he cant tackle either and is trying to be a whole midfield in one for utd. Man city were 20th in tackles made last year according to the prem league site which suggests their midfielders would be expected to make fewer fouls.

for comparisons, kante made 35 fouls last year but is understandable as makes high attempted tackles, number of successful tackles was 74. In comparison to this fernadinho’s 40 fouls looks disproportionate next to his number of successful tackles, 57.

Some other top 6 defensive mids for comparison (didnt use spurs players as their defensive mids did not play comparable number of games they seemed to rotate a lot)

*** fouls ***** successful tackles ***** Ratio of good tackles/fouls

Fabinho 29 ***** 59 ***** 2.03
Henderson 26 ***** 46 ***** 1.77
Matic 27 ***** 50 ***** 1.85
Jorginho 33 ***** 76 ***** 2.3
Torreira 38 ***** 65 ***** 1.71
Xhaka 45 ***** 52 ***** 1.16
Fernandinho 40 ***** 57 ***** 1.43

What the ratio on right represents is how many successful tackles are made per foul, as you can see with exception of the truly dreadful Xhaka, Fernandinho scores lowest here and pretty much averages at 2 fouls to every 3 fair tackles.

What surprised me about this considering the context of the discussion is jorginho having the “best” numbers on paper here, who makes over twice as many good challenges as he does bad.

I know this has probably bored the life out of all who have read it but it fernandinho’s numbers make sense to me in terms of his reputation.

He does attempt less tackles than most because he doesnt need to tackle as much as most. BUT because of the way city play and the numbers they get forward, when he does have to tackle, he really has to tackle. Unlike Jorginho who often passes off an attacker to a team mate rather than always have to commit to difficult challenges, Fernandinho has to be decisive. He either takes the ball or the man, but by hook or by crook that counter has to be stopped.

It is professional fouling, and on further reflection Brian I dont think it is unfair that he has the reputation as a professional fouler.

All that being said I would take him at chelsea in a flash, even now. I think he is the best in the league at what he does, and what he does is priceless.

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[Luckydestiny]

Sorry 442, I dont remember you mate. But going at each other sounds like a two-way thing to me, so why you want to hold it against me I dont know when we could just be adults and move on. I am sorry you feel this way, but it has nothing to do with what we discussed today, I believe I was perfectly polite in my posts, and also that you were needlessly inflammatory and disrespectful towards fellow chelsea fans in the initial post I responded to.

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[Luckydestiny]

Yeah defo not a pen.

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Jose said before the game he thinks both managers would be happy to draw today, I think he was right but both teams gave everything to try and win in the end and it was a great finish to the game.

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[Luckydestiny]

Is it comfy behind your sofa banjo?

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I hope you hold on for a draw banjo but fear arsenal will win it now. From chelsea POV, even though we finished above you last year I still see utd and arsenal as chelsea’s direct rivals this year and would rather you get all 3 points today.

Saying that everton, leicester and wolves are chelsea’s direct rivals by the looks of it this year to be fair.

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[Luckydestiny]

442, Im not following you mate, one upmanship?

Your initial post (read it again mate @11:10am, did you not expect a response?) was full of opinions and I have engaged with them, one of those opinions was that the arguments from some chelsea fans about playing kante deeper were stupid. I disagreed, gave my reasons why, and asked you what your alternative suggestions would be to tighten us up defensively. What is the problem?

I am a little aggrieved you have suggested I am out of order here mate (I have read back through the posts and just do not understand), Its not one upmanship, its simply what I thought footie forums were about, discussing and debating the game.

No offence intended though mate, I’ll just imagine replies are blocked when I read your next post, in the understanding you just want your opinions known, not debated. That is fair enough.

All the best

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[Luckydestiny]

they’ll be fine adlab, no need to worry about them, they wont have to play the european champions every week! i get what you are saying, but all teams have bad games

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of course no probs 442, I was only debating your claim that the arguments for playing kante deeper are stupid, in your different way of seeing the game what is your suggestion on how we tighten up defensively with what we have?

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[Luckydestiny]

But similar to us 442 they are stacked with attacking mids but dont have any one better than kante to play the most defensive role, thats why I dont think it is stupid to argue for us to do the same

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[Luckydestiny]

Deschamps opinion 442

““I saw that his coach preferred to see him in a more offensive position because he has a player, Jorginho, who plays in this position a little lower. [But] when he is with me in the French national team, he has a great importance in this lower position. He is very important defensively and in the organisation of the game.”

From this link, worth a read, https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2019/2/20/18232797/kante-remains-of-great-importance-to-france-as-defensive-midfielder

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[Luckydestiny]

50/50 for me bricky, I still thinks spurs have the better team over all. no form or confidence going in to a derby is not ideal, but derbies are not just any other game and form seems to play less of a factor.

As a neutral here I am looking forward to it.

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[Luckydestiny]

442, it may work mate, but if kante is in opposition 3rd when the oppo counter, and jorginho is on his own in front of back 4, our defence will continue to be as porous and we will need 3 goals a game to win.

I agree we dont have the squad to be successful in any system, but that is pointless to think about now as we can do nothing about it. We have to concentrate on making the most with what we currently have which is why I think fully utilising kante’s defensive abilities when fit is a priority, even if it means he cant get forward enough, as I do not see anyone else in the team that even comes close to him as an option to protect the back 4. You do agree the back four needs more protection right?

btw, 4231 antiquated? Is that why you are so keen to bring in dyche and his revolutionary 442 kick and rush tactics? 🙂

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Yeah was chatting with nine about it on other site as it was all developing. If we can finish top 6, bed in the youngsters, then lamps will be given another season and as you say a hefty budget. If we finish below 6th I am not sure he will be retained but like you said at least we would have given our best young prospects a season to prove if they have what it takes. Looking very good for mount and tammy. Ruben and hudson-odoi will be back soon, tomori and james promising also. Gilmour is far to raw to be given time though and the decision to bring like for like on instead of bringing on christensen with a bit more experience and trying to shut up shop yesterday in retrospect looks a big mistake.

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[Luckydestiny]

I am sure pool fans were disappointed in Brighton too adlab 🙂

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Mikus, my shout was rafa as the safest bet, even when rumours of lamps started. When the rumours turned to reality you cant help getting behind a legend even while being completely aware that he may not have the experience required. One things for sure, him and the younger players are getting some experience now 🙂

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[Luckydestiny]

lol Brian, I know mate.

The reason I put a smiley there mate is I do not think fernandinho is a cheat or anything like that. I think he is the bees knees in his role and If he where a chelsea player I would applaud every professional foul he makes, they are clever and not dangerous. He is no worse than any other mid in that respect you are spot on, he is better and cleverer in every respect.

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