[Luckydestiny]

Agree Pagan, if Pool score early utd will have no chance.

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[Luckydestiny]

– Pagan, your first sentence suggests that should I not have been able to watch Chelsea v Newcastle I would have been more likely to have watched Palace v City, the game sky paid for, and that is neither true in my case nor substantiated to be true of football fans as a whole. The highlights advert revenue doesnt really count for much either as match of the day have rights to the highlights and are commercial free and funded by licence payer, because of this Sky cant claim exclusivity to the highlights any way.

I do agree that piracy of the games shown by BT and SKY will lead to lower viewing figures and lower revenue’s, I was making that point earlier and its the Prem leagues job to ensure they provide the consumer with as good as value for money as possible because every fan would prefer to pay for quality broadcasts over pirate streams when comfortably affordable, just as every fan would prefer to watch the game from the stands instead of the armchair.

Your second para presumes that the 5 million people dont support a team of their own and just need to watch one game, any game, each saturday, and that the broadcaster has paid for the exclusive rights to fulfil this need and show one game. Thats not what the 5 million want at all. The 5 million is made up of fans of many clubs, and they want to see their team first and foremost. But of course, as above, people illegally watching the game the broadcaster shows will reduce the numbers.

Ultimately international TV rights bring just over 3bn to prem, UK alone brings in over 5bn, why does the rest of the world get much better value for money than us? They can see any game live. Dont you agree that the fans are being treated with a little bit of contempt when you consider the convoluted way we are sold games to milk as much money as possible without giving us everything they can give? I agree with Nine in that the broadcasters are not the bad guys, but I do think the Prem league are.

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[Luckydestiny]

Pagan, your first sentence suggests that should I not have been able to watch Chelsea v Newcastle I would have been more likely to have watched Palace v City, the game sky paid for, and that is neither true in my case nor substantiated to be true of football fans as a whole. The highlights advert revenue doesnt really count for much either as match of the day have rights to the highlights and are commercial free and funded by licence payer, because of this Sky cant claim exclusivity to the highlights any way.

I do agree that piracy of the games shown by BT and SKY will lead to lower viewing figures and lower revenue’s, I was making that point earlier and its the Prem leagues job to ensure they provide the consumer with as good as value for money as possible because every fan would prefer to pay for quality broadcasts over pirate streams when comfortably affordable, just as every fan would prefer to watch the game from the stands instead of the armchair.

Your second para presumes that the 5 million people dont support a team of their own and just need to watch one game, any game, each saturday, and that the broadcaster has paid for the exclusive rights to fulfil this need and show one game. Thats not what the 5 million want at all. The 5 million is made up of fans of many clubs, and they want to see their team first and foremost. But of course, as above, people illegally watching the game the broadcaster shows will reduce the numbers.

Ultimately international TV rights bring just over 3bn to prem, UK alone brings in over 5bn, why does the rest of the world get much better value for money than us? They can see any game live. Dont you agree that the fans are being treated with a little bit of contempt when you consider the convoluted way we are sold games to milk as much money as possible without giving us everything they can give? I agree with Nine in that the broadcasters are not the bad guys, but I do think the Prem league are.

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[Luckydestiny]

Pagan, your first sentence suggests that should I not have been able to watch Chelsea v Newcastle I would have been more likely to have watched Palace v City, the game sky paid for, and that is neither true in my case nor substantiated to be true of football fans as a whole. The highlights advert revenue doesnt really count for much either as match of the day have rights to the highlights and are commercial free and funded by licence payer, because of this Sky cant claim exclusivity to the highlights any way.

I do agree that piracy of the games shown by BT and SKY will lead to lower viewing figures and lower revenue’s, I was making that point earlier and its the Prem leagues job to ensure they provide the consumer with as good as value for money as possible because every fan would prefer to pay for quality broadcasts over pirate streams when comfortably affordable, just as every fan would prefer to watch the game from the stands instead of the armchair.

Your second para presumes that the 5 million people dont support a team of their own and just need to watch one game, any game, each saturday, and that the broadcaster has paid for the exclusive rights to fulfil this need and show one game. Thats not what the 5 million want at all. The 5 million is made up of fans of many clubs, and they want to see their team first and foremost. But of course, as above, people illegally watching the game the broadcaster shows will reduce the numbers.

Ultimately international TV rights bring just over 3bn to prem, UK alone brings in over 5bn, why does the rest of the world get much better value for money than us? They can see any game live. Dont you agree that the fans are being treated with a little bit of contempt when you consider the convoluted way we are sold games to milk as much money as possible without giving us everything they can give? I agree with Nine in that the broadcasters are not the bad guys, but I do think the Prem league are.

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[Luckydestiny]

Pagan, If they have the rights to all the games, why dont they show them? That would be value for money if they could. Looking at the packages sold by the prem league that nine posted, it seems they actually have rights to a very limited number of games.

Take package A for example

Package A – won by BT 32 matches on Saturdays at 12:30

So they get the pick of ONE game per saturday, and over the 32 Saturdays will show exactly 32 games, they are not granted any right by the premier league to show more than one.

You may be technically right here with this exclusivity stuff, but it seems meaningless to me and as you can see I dont really understand you. What I would like you to explain to me is how in any way BT or SKY suffer financial loss due to someone watching a stream of a game NEITHER are showing live, because thats what I mean when I say “loss”.

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[Luckydestiny]

Lucky, when you say it’s no loss to Sky/BT, that’s not taking into account the fact that they are paying for exclusivity, which of course this negates…..Pagan

How come, in regards the games they dont show? They have no exclusivity over them to negate. What I watched today, Chelsea v Newcastle, was not available to me to purchase. BT and SKY did not lose out because they werent selling it anyway, and the foreign channel hasnt lost out either as they cant sell to me.

People watching illegal streams of SKY and BT exclusive broadcasts are obviously causing a loss (presuming they would subscribe if they couldnt stream) but like I said the majority of games streamed imo are the games not availabe for us anyway.

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[Luckydestiny]

I’d be lying if I said I haven’t had the thought the Poncho is trying to get the pay-off…

Had the very same thought re Jose in his lasts season with us Banjo, only natural mate when things regress so much so quickly.

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[Luckydestiny]

Yeah surprising selection, but he obviously feels they will do better than the centre backs they have in reserve.

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[Luckydestiny]

Those watching pirate games are primarily watching them via the Cameras that Sky and BT supply.

That is correct nine, though usually a different commentary team as the streams are of broadcasts from foreign channels.

But what you are missing here, and sky and bt never acknowledge this either, is that most games watched via illegal streams are not actually broadcast in the uk any way. Its no loss to Sky or Bt when someone streams a game they are not showing but that is being shown by international broadcasters such as Bein sports and NBCSN.

I am lucky in that I get my BT subscription free (work perk) and subscribe to sky so the games broadcast here I watch legally. If I couldnt afford it I would watch online but the quality is poor and streams can be very unreliable causing you to miss good portions of games searching for a new link when one goes down. The point I am trying to make is that the league and broadcasters are now pushing it, and as it becomes more expensive to watch the legal streams people will revert to illegal streams. You rightly referred to two sides to these arguments, but why are we so eager to consider their side if they dont consider ours? Hopefully they will understand soon enough that we are more than willing to pay for these games, but please treat us with respect and offer us value for money, otherwise we wont buy at all.

I will be watching todays game through my firestick on a foreign channel, but thats only because there is no legal way to do it. Yes you can attend the game live but only room for 40000 and many more chelsea fans than that in this country. (and to be fair its not something I can justify from a financial POV considering the priorities for my family)

Glad you had a good time this morning mate and congrats to your grandson, fingers crossed for us this afternoon,

Take it easy Nine.

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[Luckydestiny]

Pagan, I dont expect Piracy to create the extreme circumstances you describe, however if legitimate subscribers and official viewing figures drop so will advertising revenue, since money is all that matters I would be hopeful this could be something keep the greed of the League and broadcasters in check. People will always prefer to pay for consistent quality and value when they can and the option of piracy hopefully will act as an incentive for Value for the consumer to be considered.

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[Luckydestiny]

Nine, many fair points raised by yourself there mate, and agree that if we are happy for our cubs to receive the monies we cant complain too much about the schedules.

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[Luckydestiny]

Pagan fair points re the fragmentation of tv rights too, when you look at the figures Nine posted for domestic TV rights income its no wonder the premier league splits its games in to packages as they do. 5.2 billion per year!

That means every month the combined UK broadcasters earn enough revenue from subscriptions and advertising that they can hand over 425 million to the premier league!

I would love the premier league to take complete ownership of it now we are in digital age though, Like a prem league direct subscription service with all games broadcast live for a monthly subscription. Problem is, even if you overestimate at 2m unique uk subscribers at £40/month that would only total 80m and unless it could generate over 345m per month in sponsorships and advertisments even 2m people paying 40/month would not make as much money as the current broadcasting set up.

Although I suppose the 425m/month the broadcasters hand over collectively each month is going to be considerably less than the total revenue generated through subscriptions and advertisments though, as the broadcaster has taken a cut. Its hard to tell without knowing exactly how much money can be made through the advert/sponsor side of things, but again hope in the future its all under one roof and at a reasonable cost. Maybe soon enough it will become more profitable for the Premier league to broadcast everything itself.

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[Luckydestiny]

Pagan Sky took the gamble, every one else is jumping on the bandwagon so to be pedantic its not broadcasters plural its the broadcaster. The gamble paid off because of the fans in the first place though and the broadcasters (plural) and the Premier League are now taking advantage of just how fanatical we are, it will back fire and change will be forced upon them imo, mainly because of piracy.

Why am I willing to subscribe to sports channels when I can watch it for free? Well personally I prefer the quality of the official broadcasts and only really watch the games not shown on UK tv on illegal streams…but as the games are split between broadcasters and the cost of multiple subscriptions sore, more and more people will revert to pirate streams online and subscriptions will drop, then advertising revenue will drop.

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[Luckydestiny]

Nil, I do understand your POV as far as fixture congestion goes, but if you look at it through the commercial side of things it is bound to find its limit. I say this because the more games teams have to play, the lower the quality of the games (or the “product” from a commercial POV) Look how this has played out in domestic cup competitions, most teams, especially those in europe cant compete on 3 or 4 fronts, so they prioritise and rotate for the comps they deem least important. This means that the quality of football in the league cup and FA cup is reducing and so commercially those competitions will fall further and further behind the league and European cups in terms of importance.

Maybe that will be the solution, not ideal but the domestic cups are likely to become more and more competitions for the second teams. Personally I would prefer scrapping the league cup, or at least omitting the clubs who are also in europe, I love the FA cup and think scrapping the league cup could be vital to rescuing the FA cups relevance and importance.

With regards the dates of fixtures moved for broadcasters, well I also wish the governing bodies would take a more rational and holistic view of things and consider how to maximise the quality of games through considerate scheduling, and I do agree that of course travel for fans should be taken into consideration, but as you and everyone else knows, its about the money. However, from a selfish POV, as someone who will be home on boxing day merry as can be, I will be grateful for the entertainment and to be honest I may renew my amazon subscription just for that month, mindlessly feeding the machine against which you rage 🙂

Catch up with you tomorrow for match day cyber chum.

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[Luckydestiny]

Nil, I was referring to Nine’s post of the article regards tv right shares, not the scheduling of fixtures to meet tv demands, Happy Friday tho mate 🙂

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[Luckydestiny]

I know that nine, just giving my opinion on it. What you think?

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[Luckydestiny]

Ozil was also the one to use the term scapegoat, but realistically you can only be a scapegoat if you are playing. He may claim to have been a scapegoat prior to this season, but believe me Chelseaman I have seen enough Arsenal fan TV to know Arsenal fans have not picked on ozil or scapegoated him, for him to be scapegoated they would have to be more unfairly critical of ozil than the other players and that is not the case, they are brutal with virtually all the players.

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[Luckydestiny]

Nine, it dont sit right with me even if they are trying to play down the advantages of this for the top teams. At the end of the day you need two teams for a game of football, you can argue utd attract more fans for sure, but if they had no one to play there wouldnt be a game for their fans to pay to watch, TV rights should be distributed equally imo.

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[Luckydestiny]

If anyone here doesnt have amazon prime you can get a month free trial so just sign up for that just before christmas and then cancel.

If you get a firestick it wont take you much time on the net to learn how to add apps to watch all the 3pm kick offs too and worthy of the investment. Better than streaming from dodgy sites on more expensive hardware like a laptop or pc.

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[Luckydestiny]

Lol Banjo, I loved Nicholson in that movie.

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