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Oh no Nine. That’s awful news to hear. So sorry to read that. Thoughts are with you and your family at this awful time 🙏❤️
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Nine, to continue on the marriage analogy, this is like the serial divorcee declaring “this is the one this time. I’m in ot for the long haul now. I’ll make this work” then proceeding to divorce his wife after a few arguments months later 😁
Lucky,you say all that but you wanted them to give him until the end of the season. Which one is it? They were right to get rid or they pulled the trigger too early? Again, I’m not saying they were wrong to pull the trigger. I’m saying it was foolish to think the whole spiel about this being different now and things changing was ever going to survive a single tough period.
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That FA Cup win for Arsenal was a red herring imo. “Some Arsenal fans didn’t trust the process” is about as big an understatement as you’re likely to see. Arsenal fans were almost unanimously in favour of binning Arteta and rightly so. They were miles worse than Chelsea under Potter at various times under Arteta. Rock bottom of the league after losing their first 3 games in one season, for example. I wouldn’t have had much patience there to be honest. My point is that Boehly came in preaching about this being a new era of long term thinking/planning and has reverted to the Roman model at the first hurdle.
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We wanted to see evidence of progress which arteta gave arsenal for example, we have got worse, not even the slightest progression
You know Arsenal finished 8th twice, right? They finished 5th under Emery the season prior.
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Not at all. He’s been there 7 months. Had no pre season. Had loads of new players to integrate. Was he doing great? No he wasn’t and may well have never made a success of it. Again, though, that is short term thinking right there. My point isn’t whether or not I agree with it. In fact, I often envied Roman’s ruthlessness as my own club dallied over pulling the trigger on managers when it was clear they weren’t up to it.
My point that this so called new strategy of showing patience and long term thinking ala Arsenal was a load of rubbish. Again, absolutely no shame in admitting that and there is no shame in embracing what has been a successful model. Pretending they’re any more patient than under Roman is, frankly, laughable. But the same short termism has worked absolute wonders for then in the past so I say embrace it and don’t try to paint it up as something it’s not.
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If Utd were in the position Chelsea were in now, like you, I would have wanted my club to give him at least until the end of the season. But you’re missing my point. Arsenal fans wanted Arteta out many times. Fans aren’t always right. I’m not even saying sticking with him would have been the right thing to do. I’m suggesting their vision was a load of rubbish as they’ve abandoned it at the first sign of a bump in the road. Fans want instant success. Fans aren’t patient. The point of a long term vision is that it’s about maybe needing to resist that instant desire for success from fans and ride out the inevitable bumps in the road. All Chelsea have shown is that they’re every bit as short term focused as they were under Roman. There’s no shame in that. As I said, it’s very successful, one of the most successful models in recent history even. It’s absolutely fine to admit that and embrace it rather than pretending anything has changed.
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Mistakes can be made mate, it would stupid to persist rather than pretend the mistake was made at all.
It’s only stupid to persist if you know it will result in failure. You don’t. Boehly doesn’t. Nobody does. But, again, that’s exactly the point I’m making. Not being willing to ride it out is displaying the very ruthless, short term thinking Boehly was insistent was a thing of the past. It’s totally fine to admit that vision has been abandoned. Chelsea were hugely successful employing this short term thinking so I think they’d be silly to pretend they’ve moved on from it when they clearly haven’t.
My worry as a Chelsea fan would be that the unprecedented January spending we saw is unlikely going to be repeated this summer. In fact, much the opposite could happen where Chelsea need to balance the books. To then bring in a new manager with an entirely different philosophy without much wiggle room to shape the squad in his vision could be a concern. Particularly if they bring someone like Luis Enrique in who has a very set way of playing which requires a certain profile of player.
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This is exactly the point I’m making
This was supposed to be a brave new world for #CFC.
Yet the Boehly-Clearlake consortium has done something Roman Abramovich never did – sacking two managers in one season.
Despite all the promises of running things differently, Chelsea are back to square one.
— The Athletic | Football (@TheAthleticFC) April 3, 2023
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Whether I’d back him or not is irrelevant Lucky. My point is that Boehly came in with a vision to move the club on from the short term hiring and firing model (which was very successful as I keep stating) but has panicked at the first sign of trouble. Results have been bad for a while but you’re in the QF of the CL and have nothing at all to gain other than a slightly higher league position. You could argue a new manager might give you a bounce and win the CL against the odds but that’s the point. That kind of thinking is exactly what Boehly wanted to move the club away from. I think he deserved until the end of the season.
Fans views aren’t always right. Arsenal fans were #Artetaout for ages. That I wouldn’t have backed Potter is completely irrelevant in the point I’m making.
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Nine, I think an appointment like Potter is only ever right if you’re prepared to be patient and ride out what will inevitably be a bumpy ride. Arsenal have shown the merits of riding out the tough times. That’s not to say giving a manager time is always going to work but the fact is this was the first big bump and they’ve hit the panic button. I don’t see what there is to gain from acting now. Chelsea aren’t going down and a new manager is unlikely to get CL football now anyway.
This problem is not unique to Chelsea but these top clubs are finding themselves in identity crises whereby clubs preach about long term plans and visions but are rarely willing to ride out any periods of struggle for fear of falling too far behind. Chelsea could do worse than avoiding all that long term talk and just embrace the model which has worked so well for them previously which is the ruthless but successful model of hiring and firing with regularity.
Boehly has already achieved a level of ruthlessness even Roman didn’t and that’s to have fired 2 managers in the same season.
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Where’s 999 these days? Hope you’re well Nine if you’re reading. Interesting to hear your thoughts, as always.
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Brighton are a much, much better side under De Zerbi than they ever were under Potter imo Lucky. It’s early days with him but I don’t think you can simply put Brighton’s progress under him to the circumstances being right. He’s taken them to new heights.
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Can an owner stand down Lucky? 😅
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This is bad news for Spurs though, who will now have to contend with Chelsea for the top managers.
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I am surprised to be honest. So much for long term thinking at Chelsea. Back to the chopping and changing we saw under Roman at the first sign of trouble. A very successful model under Roman, it has to be said.
Wonder if there’ll be a temporary appointment like Terry/Lampard then assess in the summer. It’s either that or they’ve already talked to the likes of Nagelsmann/Poch. Can’t see De Zerbi leaving until the summer.
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You can keep Kepa Lucky 😅. De Gea is a conundrum and his contract coming up for renewal is pivotal in terms of what happens next. He’s a first class shot stopper but look how much he’s told to hit it long because Ten Hag knows his passing game is his weakness. His highlight reel of saves is probably the best in Europe this season but it’s afoot point because his weakness is preventing us playing how we want. Whereas Klopp, Arteta and Pep all got rid of their keepers to bring in Ramsay, Allison and Ederson for the same reason, Ten Hag simply couldn’t do that because,firstly,the budget wouldn’t stretch far enough last summer and,secondly, because you can’t have De Gea sitting on the bench when he’s the highest paid player in the squad. My worry is that De Gea will renew again simply because there are, again, more pressing issues to contend with in improving the squad and it will not be prioritised.
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We’re all still laughing at Spurs “taking over the world” Chucky 😅.
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Good post Lucky. I agree with the premise of the post but disagree on the finer details. I’ve said this previously but I think there are 3 key ingredients which determine whether or not a manager is successful and they are imo:
1. The structure of the club. This includes all the key decision makers of the football club. The chief scouts, data team, director of football. The sum of the whole structure in essence.
2. Resources. Both how much money is available for strengthening but also the quality of players the manager inherits as well as the quality of the academy. That last point for multiple reasons. Partly because the manager can pick and choose top talent from the academy but also because a conveyor belt of talent provides a constant stream of income which can then be reinvested in more players.
3. The quality and fit of the coach. The last part is often underestimated IMO. I’m a big believer in managers suiting certain types of jobs. Someone like Klopp IMO suits being an underdog manager. He needs to almost have a Bayern or a City to topple to be able to create that siege mentality in his squad. Pep needs to have the strongest technical squad in the competition for him to succeed. Someone like Moyes made a fantastic Everton manager but was unable to maintain the overperformance at a club expected to dominate. A bad fit. He is simply more suited to a side not expected to win much.
IMO a club’s success under a particular manager is the result of the above equation where I feel each one is weighted differently. IMO the third point,the manager should be weighted the highest followed by the club’s structure (1) followed by resources (2). I think weakness in either 1 or 2 can be masked by the others being of a high enough standard but I think the third point, the manager/coach is the only point which can’t be masked by the other 2. Certainly not over any length of time. Potte, for me, simply isn’t a good fit at Chelsea. He isn’t suited to being at a club expected to dominate games and win most games,much like Moyes. That’s not to say he can’t exceed expectations at another club, just as he did at Brighton but the circumstances need to be right.
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Do you all remember when it was a 3 horse race for the title a couple of weeks bacK??? How we larffed….
Besides, you literally created a thread about how Spurs were going to “take over the world” under Conte. Have some shame Chucky 😅
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Do you all remember when it was a 3 horse race for the title a couple of weeks bacK??? How we larffed…
Certainly wasn’t Utd fans saying that Chucky. We were never once in a title race. Nothing we can do about other fans saying that.
Lucky, spot on. With the exception of Antony, who the jury is very much out on, the best players have been Ten Hag’s buys so there’s a silver lining in there somewhere that we’ll hopefully become more consistent the more he’s allowed to shape the team. De Gea’s distribution continues to be a problem for us and prevents us playing anything like the kind of football Ten Hag clearly wants.
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