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Because, if anything, Potter should be winning the quadruple next season if we’re going to talk about resources vs expectations. No manager in history has seen his club spend what Potter has in such a short space of time.
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But that being said, if Conte has failed with spurs, ten hag needs to win league with utd next season or come damn close otherwise we are not being fair and reasonable in how we talk about expectations.
I really don’t think it’s as simple as that Lucky. I don’t think anyone is saying Conte failed simply because he isn’t higher in the league. Conte failed because he:
1. Failed to improve the club’s playing style
2. Hasn’t improved Spurs’ position
3. Has come nowhere near winning any trophies
4. Has alienated the squad, evidenced by his recent rantThere are a multitude of reasons people are saying he’s failed. Had Conte got Spurs to where they are in the league playing lovely football and having a few cup runs and kept his mouth shut, I don’t think anyone would say he has failed vs expectations. Spurs could easily finish exactly where their resources suggest they should.
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Lucky, here are those same Marca figures again from last year https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-big-six-wages-salary-26397254
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Yeah Ed, they change transfer window to transfer window, what is consistent though is that for last decade relative to opposition utd have always been 1st or 2nd and well above the average and in great position to compete.
Definitely Lucky. In fairness, Utd have finished 2nd twice in the last 5 seasons. Granted, we’ve been nowhere near challenging but let’s not pretend we’ve been like Arsenal who finished 8th 2 years in a row. No Utd fan would argue Utd haven’t underachieved as a club in total. I think managers have often taken an unfair amount of slack as the faults have often come from a lack of vision at board level and too much short term thinking.
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Wage bills vs performance are a great indicator of a whole club’s ability to make right decisions as they can use a single metric (wage bill vs league position/points) over a longer period. They’re less effective at determining a coach’s ability. You can’t, for instance, suggest Ten Hag is underperforming by having Utd 3rd with (depending on source) the highest wage bill. That may make appealing headlines, but the reality is he took over the 6th best side in the league who also lost a whole midfield in the summer. I think the only time you can use wage bill vs performance ratio to judge a manager is when that manager has been where he is a long time and the whole squad is theirs. Similarly for Conte, I think it’s a flawed metric to use when the manager hasn’t been there long enough to take either the credit or the blame for that particular ratio over time.
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This from Marca has Utd 3rd. Have a hard time believing we’ve jumped up to 1st having offloaded Pogba, Ronaldo, Lingard, Mata, Matic, Cavani etc
https://www.marca.com/en/football/premier-league/2022/03/06/622504ab22601d94458b458e.html
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Wage bill tables are all over the place depending on the source. I have no idea why. Here’s one from Talksport
Premier League wage bills:
Chelsea – £212,090,000
Manchester United – £211,875,000
Manchester City – £182,640,000
Liverpool – £158,788,000
Tottenham – £110,438,000
Arsenal – £97,878,000
Aston Villa – £89,880,000
Everton – £80,707,000
West Ham – £80,060,000
Newcastle – £76,220,000
Leicester – £73,190,000
Crystal Palace – £67,624,000
Nottingham Forest – £67,460,000
Fulham – £56,668,000
Wolves – £52,702,000
Southampton – £51,496,000
Leeds United – £48,100,000
Bournemouth – £42,276,000
Brighton – £35,685,000
Brentford – £30,170,000_____________________________
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Yeah I think a club like Spurs should be winning or almost winning cups reasonably regularly Lucky. You wouldn’t expect Spurs to win a league but there’s no reason they can’t be up there challenging from time to time. Conte spent a lot of money at Spurs and, whilst he can’t be expected to “succeed” straight away, there were very few, if any, signs of progress.
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As amusing as the mess at Spurs is, I just don’t buy this “no manager will succeed there” thing. I think Mikus has made some excellent points about managers who have gone there and simply been a bad fit, despite all the manager’s previous achievements. Again, as Mikus has pointed out many times, you can’t go half hearted into a Conte/Mourinho type of appointment. If they’re going to succeed, you simply have to let them do their job and don’t try to change them by expecting them to be more attacking/proactive or expecting them to bring through academy players when it’s not something they’re known for.
The fact they’re going from the vastly different Mourinho/Conte type managers to potentially Nagelsman/Poch suggests they either don’t have a long term vision for the club or they too easily deviate from it because they lose focus on the long term objectives in favour of short term gains.
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Good post Mikus re Spurs. Spurs are very much like Everton who have also had managers and players who have succeeded elsewhere before and/or after joining Everton. There’s something about the culture of both those clubs whereby there’s just an ingrained acceptance of mediocrity. The answer is seemingly not trying to change that culture overnight with established managers like Jose, Conte, Ancelotti etc. A culture change requires immense patience, a solid plan and the right people. All of which Arsenal seem to have got right.
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PPT, why the need to make it a club rivalry thing? It was a poor miss from Grealish. It would have been 3-0 had he put it away. Silly from Shaw too and Maguire was poor for the goal. I’ll make sure to add one criticism of each Utd player for every City player I criticise going forward 😄😉. I couldn’t care less about club rivalries when it comes to England playing. More than happy to cheer on City/Liverpool players or anyone else. Just want the best team out.
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Absolutely Nine and really should have been out of sight at 0-3 but for a poor finish from Grealish.
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Would be an interesting appointment at Spurs, that’s for sure. Could also potentially explain Spurs’ delay in announcing Conte’s departure
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The sad irony of the above is that it undoubtedly paves the way for Greenwood to come back. The fact the fans of that club have had no problem at all cheering that player on will tell the Utd board they needn’t just terminate his contract as fans will eventually just forget about it.
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So, an unnamed player, who might or might not have played a vital part in a potential title chase in the PL this season has now seen another victim come forward. It absolutely stinks that this player has been allowed to play such a pivotal role in his side’s season and will, IMO put a massive asterisk against any potential title win
Premier League international football star arrested for two 'rapes' is quizzed for 'hours' under caution by police after a third woman came forward https://t.co/g8qYsR9wRw pic.twitter.com/2mR95I9fSN
— MailOnline Sport (@MailSport) March 23, 2023
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Re Bellingham Sean, every single top level journalist has been saying it’s Liverpool or Madrid all season. I think only Liverpool’s recent demise that has seen City nip back in with a solid chance and Liverpool’s chances all but vanish. We’ve been trying too and have never given up hope after coming close to getting him instead of him going to Dortmund but we’ve no chance either seemingly at the moment. I don’t think we’d pay the kind of fee Dortmund would want on a single player and I don’t think he’d see us as a safe enough choice yet if he wants trophies (though the same can be said of Liverpool now, in fairness).
Besides, we’ve had our fingers burnt on multiple Dortmund players in the past. Kagawa, Mkhitaryan and Sancho have all failed to live up to their hype. After seeing Bellingham against Chelsea, I’d be extremely wary about paying £150mil for him. For that kind of money, I’d want a guaranteed world beater. I’m not entirely convinced Bellingham is that, for all his undoubted potential and current quality. I think Musiala is a much better player personally.
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You would strongly fancy utd for the Europa league now as arsenal were the only serious contenders.
Sean, you would think so but Sevilla are just about to change manager and are the kings of this competition in recent seasons. Their league form suggests we should be too much for them but you never know with a new manager bounce. Let’s see who they get in. Juventus are no pushovers either and would be comfortably second in Serie A but for the points deduction. Also, the very fact Arsenal themselves were knocked out by an inferior side despite flying in the PL suggests we can’t and won’t take anything for granted. Would be incredible to end the season with a double but I’d happily take the League Cup and top 4 this season. Also, you can never, ever write off a Mourinho side in a one-off game. He’s still very capable of beating any side over 90mins, whatever it takes.
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Nobody looks consistent at all in the top 4 race. For a while, we looked nailed on for 3rd with the 4th spot to come from one of Spurs, Brighton, Newcastle or Liverpool. We look like getting dragged into it now. Really wouldn’t like to have any money riding on it. I’d still fancy Utd and Liverpool to be the two, in any order. But it is wide open.
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Who would you want Chucky? Tuchel, Poch would likely be the easy options. De Zerbi and Enrique maybe slightly tougher as I suspect they may hold fire until there’s more clarity over the Chelsea job. That’s not to disrespect Spurs but the chance to work with a budget and squad like Chelsea have, as well as a higher salary, is probably going to be more appealing.
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Do you think he should go based on his outburst Chucky? He can’t keep his job after that, surely?
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