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Nine, I think an appointment like Potter is only ever right if you’re prepared to be patient and ride out what will inevitably be a bumpy ride. Arsenal have shown the merits of riding out the tough times. That’s not to say giving a manager time is always going to work but the fact is this was the first big bump and they’ve hit the panic button. I don’t see what there is to gain from acting now. Chelsea aren’t going down and a new manager is unlikely to get CL football now anyway.

This problem is not unique to Chelsea but these top clubs are finding themselves in identity crises whereby clubs preach about long term plans and visions but are rarely willing to ride out any periods of struggle for fear of falling too far behind. Chelsea could do worse than avoiding all that long term talk and just embrace the model which has worked so well for them previously which is the ruthless but successful model of hiring and firing with regularity.

Boehly has already achieved a level of ruthlessness even Roman didn’t and that’s to have fired 2 managers in the same season.

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Where’s 999 these days? Hope you’re well Nine if you’re reading. Interesting to hear your thoughts, as always.

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Brighton are a much, much better side under De Zerbi than they ever were under Potter imo Lucky. It’s early days with him but I don’t think you can simply put Brighton’s progress under him to the circumstances being right. He’s taken them to new heights.

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Can an owner stand down Lucky? 😅

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This is bad news for Spurs though, who will now have to contend with Chelsea for the top managers.

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I am surprised to be honest. So much for long term thinking at Chelsea. Back to the chopping and changing we saw under Roman at the first sign of trouble. A very successful model under Roman, it has to be said.

Wonder if there’ll be a temporary appointment like Terry/Lampard then assess in the summer. It’s either that or they’ve already talked to the likes of Nagelsmann/Poch. Can’t see De Zerbi leaving until the summer.

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You can keep Kepa Lucky 😅. De Gea is a conundrum and his contract coming up for renewal is pivotal in terms of what happens next. He’s a first class shot stopper but look how much he’s told to hit it long because Ten Hag knows his passing game is his weakness. His highlight reel of saves is probably the best in Europe this season but it’s afoot point because his weakness is preventing us playing how we want. Whereas Klopp, Arteta and Pep all got rid of their keepers to bring in Ramsay, Allison and Ederson for the same reason, Ten Hag simply couldn’t do that because,firstly,the budget wouldn’t stretch far enough last summer and,secondly, because you can’t have De Gea sitting on the bench when he’s the highest paid player in the squad. My worry is that De Gea will renew again simply because there are, again, more pressing issues to contend with in improving the squad and it will not be prioritised.

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We’re all still laughing at Spurs “taking over the world” Chucky 😅.

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Good post Lucky. I agree with the premise of the post but disagree on the finer details. I’ve said this previously but I think there are 3 key ingredients which determine whether or not a manager is successful and they are imo:

1. The structure of the club. This includes all the key decision makers of the football club. The chief scouts, data team, director of football. The sum of the whole structure in essence.

2. Resources. Both how much money is available for strengthening but also the quality of players the manager inherits as well as the quality of the academy. That last point for multiple reasons. Partly because the manager can pick and choose top talent from the academy but also because a conveyor belt of talent provides a constant stream of income which can then be reinvested in more players.

3. The quality and fit of the coach. The last part is often underestimated IMO. I’m a big believer in managers suiting certain types of jobs. Someone like Klopp IMO suits being an underdog manager. He needs to almost have a Bayern or a City to topple to be able to create that siege mentality in his squad. Pep needs to have the strongest technical squad in the competition for him to succeed. Someone like Moyes made a fantastic Everton manager but was unable to maintain the overperformance at a club expected to dominate. A bad fit. He is simply more suited to a side not expected to win much.

IMO a club’s success under a particular manager is the result of the above equation where I feel each one is weighted differently. IMO the third point,the manager should be weighted the highest followed by the club’s structure (1) followed by resources (2). I think weakness in either 1 or 2 can be masked by the others being of a high enough standard but I think the third point, the manager/coach is the only point which can’t be masked by the other 2. Certainly not over any length of time. Potte, for me, simply isn’t a good fit at Chelsea. He isn’t suited to being at a club expected to dominate games and win most games,much like Moyes. That’s not to say he can’t exceed expectations at another club, just as he did at Brighton but the circumstances need to be right.

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Do you all remember when it was a 3 horse race for the title a couple of weeks bacK??? How we larffed….

Besides, you literally created a thread about how Spurs were going to “take over the world” under Conte. Have some shame Chucky 😅

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Do you all remember when it was a 3 horse race for the title a couple of weeks bacK??? How we larffed…

Certainly wasn’t Utd fans saying that Chucky. We were never once in a title race. Nothing we can do about other fans saying that.

Lucky, spot on. With the exception of Antony, who the jury is very much out on, the best players have been Ten Hag’s buys so there’s a silver lining in there somewhere that we’ll hopefully become more consistent the more he’s allowed to shape the team. De Gea’s distribution continues to be a problem for us and prevents us playing anything like the kind of football Ten Hag clearly wants.

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Newcastle fully deserved the 3 points today. Utd were poor and have been for a few games now. We’ve coped terribly with the absences of Casemiro and Eriksen and there’s no excuse for that. Very much in the top 4 fight again now.

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😅 true Steve!

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Agree Mikus. The thing is, that chance may arise again in the summer but Potter would be somewhat damaged by the Chelsea experience by then so would probably be wise to wait for a job with less expectation where he can rebuild his reputation. De Zerbi won’t be at Brighton long, I feel. A return for Potter might nor be the worst idea.

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Agree Sean about Potter. He had a bit of a free ride for a few weeks as the press tend to go easy on the English managers at times I feel but they’ve quickly changed their tune with Potter and been going after him for a while now. The only person responsible for the circus around Spurs is Conte who brought it all on himself. Not only this most recent rant. He’s been coming out with some ridiculous from the first day he went there. People were saying it would end in tears because of the type of character Conte is and that’s proven to be the case.

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That Tuesday game is anyone’s guess. Could be a bore draw or could equally be 4-4 going by the defensive performances of both sides recently.

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Oh I’m not suggesting there’s a better one Lucky. I’m suggesting that there isn’t one full stop. No single metric can alone determine expectations for a coach. There are far too many moving parts. Let me give you an example. There’s every chance Chelsea end up with a higher wage bill than City by this summer. Imagine for a moment both City and Chelsea change managers this summer. Would we then expect the Chelsea manager to finish higher than the new City manager simply because of a higher wage bill?

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BTW, are you implying in your posts above that you think chelsea have done good business? You talk about another manager with a bloated squad and then contrast with Potter as though its different? Sounds the same to me, unless of course the new signings prove themselves to be of considerable quality and good value.

I’m merely suggesting that it would be flawed and unfair to solely judge Potter’s expectations on his wage bill alone as, unlike managers you’d be comparing him to, he’d have spent an unprecedented amount of money on transfers and (presumably) had a massive influence in those players being selected. Ie if he does have high earners there’s a good chance he’s had a hand in picking them, unlike managers you’re likely to compare him to.

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But ultimately if we go in to the season with a wage bill considerably lower than city and utd next season I won’t he expecting a title unless the players prove otherwise, if we go in to the season spending the same or more on wages the club is obliged to deliver on it.

But are you then suggesting Utd should expect a title challenge if the wages would be higher than Chelsea despite us knowing Utd’s ability is less than their wage bill suggests based on recent performances? Again, you can’t judge a manager solely based on good/poor decisions way before the manager joined. I think we’re in a round about way saying the same thing. That you can judge a club and their business decisions over a longer period of time using wage bill vs league performance. I just disagree that you can judge a coach based on a wage bill that they had little to do with amassing. I think in order to judge a manager on wage bill vs league performance, you’d have to include minimum length of tenure so as to ensure that manager can take the credit/blame for the wage bill. Even then, it’s tougher than ever to do that judgement simply because a manager isn’t in control of the club in the same way they were before. Managers are often given players these days by committees and expected to get them performing. There are simply far too many variables at play to judge a manager on that metric. A club, over a longer period, fine.

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I just don’t think you can only base anything on wages alone Lucky. Say Chelsea come in at similar wages to Spurs for arguments sake. Are we going to completely dismiss the fact that Potter would have had an unprecedented amount of spending in a single season and solely look at the wages his club pays? The fact he has been able to pretty much get an entire new squad is huge. It’s not in any way fair to compare that to someone who comes in with a bloated squad of players who may have tons of players who are not good enough ordont suit that manager’s style. If he happens to have a higher wage bill (because of stupid decision making before he joined) you can’t in any way suggest the expectations should be similar to someone like Potter. This is the thing, there isn’t a simple metric which isn’t flawed in some way. People tend to pick the metric that best suits their agenda. I myself am guilty of it.

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