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Congrats to the City fans on here. Hope you’re still reading somewhere Brian 🙏

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Again, it’s not the fact City have caught them IMO which makes them bottlers. You simply can’t afford to slip up against City and I get that. This wasn’t a normal loss of form though. It’s the manner of the defeats that defines it as an implosion rather than simply bad form or not having the legs. Yesterday they were absolutely torn to shreds by Brighton. That’s not bad form. That’s a capitulation. Not having the legs is playing every 3 days and running out of steam. They’ve been playing no more than once a week for the best part of 2 months. Besides, Arteta is an incredibly irritating individual on the sideline so I’m much more content calling them bottlers whatever anyone else says 😂

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It’s usually a lot earlier and if it was the first 7 games of the season that they dropped points but then they got to this stage on this level of points we couldn’t possibly describe it as bottling a title, we would just praise the improvement. Seems rather unfair that the point at which you experience bad form determines how the 38 games as a whole should be judged.

I totally understand your point here Lucky but that’s just the nature of sport and performance measurement in general. Say, for example, Arsenal had lost these games at the beginning of the season and rallied around to get up to where they now are and finish a few points behind City. The end result would be the same but they are completely different situations. Failing at the vital moments when the pressure is on is when character and mentality is put to the test. There is no pressure on Arsenal at the beginning of the season. Lots of decent sides win when the pressure is off. Performing when the pressure is at its peak is a sign of where you’re at, not doing so when it doesn’t really mean anything. Spurs were the masters of it under Poch. They lost a league to Leicester when everyone else was faltering. They didn’t turn up in a CL final. The choked in both cases. That’s not to say they didn’t do well getting there, too.

It’s not “unfair” imo to compare losing games you shouldn’t when not under pressure to losing games you shouldn’t when the pressure is at its highest.

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As I said, it’s on a lesser scale but nobody had us finishing top 4 but we’ll have bottled it massively if we now lose it simply because we put ourselves in such a great position for that to not be a risk. Expectations change throughout the season.

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Spot on Steve. It’s entirely possible for both to be true. You did overachieve and you did choke when it really mattered at a time when you dropped points you shouldn’t be doing. That you had that run in recent weeks dropping all those silly points is nothing to do with City being better. You didn’t lose 0-3 at home to Brighton because City are better than you.

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Mental exhaustion?! 😆. They’ve only been playing PL games for a while now. All the other teams around them have been competing on multiple fronts. They’ve had a massive advantage on that front.

I don’t for a minute demand they be good enough to win the league. That run of results I mentioned was nothing to do with them being tired or not good enough. Their performances until that point are evidence of that. As I said, I can praise them for getting that far while also having a go at their collapse. Safe to say we’ll not agree on this one Lucky 🙂

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I don’t agree with the marathon thing tbh. Arsenal had this in their hands and weren’t “overtaken by the better runner” so to speak. They imploded in games which should have been in the bag. They were awful against City. Fine, City can do that to anyone. But they were in a position where that City game needn’t have mattered. Potential champions don’t throw away two 2 goal leads on the bounce, concede 3 against the worst side in the league at home, almost losing and get torn apart by Brighton at home (themselves fresh off a 5-1 home humbling against Everton). It’s a well done on the progress from me but they won’t escape criticism from me for that collapse. I’m seeing lots of Arsenal fans saying the same tbh.

If I could modify the marathon analogy to oneI feel better reflects the race than your “the better runner overtook them” I’d say Arsenal were the runner who led for 80% of the race with just the home straight remaining and City nowhere in sight only to trip over his own laces 4 times before stumbling over the line in 2nd place despite many having tipped him to not even be top 5.

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It’s always a difficult one that Lucky. I think there are two camps. Those that think you can’t be bottlers if you overachieved against expectations and those that think you very much can. I’m very much in the latter category. Take my own team. Nobody had us to finish in the top 4 this season. Despite that, we’d be massive bottlers if we fail to get it now because of the lead we’d have thrown away. IMO you can very much overachieve against initial expectations AND be massive bottlers. Leicester another great example. They had a couple of seasons where they spent a ridiculous amount of time in the top 4 spots only to collapse at the final moments.

That Arsenal will thrown away two 2 goal leads against Liverpool and West Ham, drew at home to the bottom side in the league (almost losing) and got battered by Brighton at home is unforgivable for a top 4 side, never mind one fighting for the title. They should be praised for their progress while also being torn apart for their subsequent collapse. Both can be true imo.

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Arsenal massive bottlers again under Arteta. Shameful how they’ve collapsed these last few weeks and with no other competition to distract them. The problem with having now done that twice (last season with top 4) is that it starts to become an expectation, a habit. Just as winning can be a habit, so can falling at the final hurdle. It will need some strong characters to shake that out of the team now.

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Probably a wise choice considering Chelsea’s current status as a club. Not too dissimilar to when he took over Spurs who were, at the time, another fallen giant who were badly struggling. I don’t particularly fear Chelsea initially under Poch but he could get them back to a point where an elite manager could then come in and do the rest, as others have alluded to.

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Yeah how does that work with the San Siro? Is there any difference in the home and away aspect of this tie? Do they get a bigger fan allocation for the home leg?

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Rover, I don’t want any other side to win anything aside from mine. I would hope all fans are like that. City are no different in that regard.

What rubs me up the wrong way is this “poor City, everyone hates us. Why do all decisions go against us?” kind of attitude from City fans. Especially when they got very fortunate with the ball being out before the goal yesterday. If that had happened to Liverpool or Utd, there would be bedlam.

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City really got away with one there. What’s the point of VAR if they don’t even check it for such blatant decisions?

🎙️| Arsene Wenger: "VAR should have checked Bernardo Silva's controlling the ball out of play."

beIN Sports later confirmed with 3D technology that the ball was indeed out of play. #rmalive pic.twitter.com/ekcuhoU0Jn

— Madrid Zone (@theMadridZone) May 9, 2023

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You have to be joking Adlab, surely? Nothing about the ball being out before the City goal?

🗣️ Carlo Ancelotti: “For me, the ball went out but according to the referee, it didn’t. I don't understand why they did not use VAR." pic.twitter.com/zoNcZgAQL8

— Football Tweet ⚽ (@Football__Tweet) May 9, 2023

Or this from Bernardo somehow not leading to a red?

This Bernardo Silva challenge on Camavinga 😨 pic.twitter.com/YpK323K8hq

— ESPN FC (@ESPNFC) May 9, 2023

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Incredible result by Everton away at Brighton. When you look at the stats, it’s hard to understand how they got that result. Brighton had almost 80% of the ball, 23 shots and actually had a higher xg than Everton. I didn’t see the game but it looks like a case of one team more than taking their chances and the other not taking theirs. Brighton have done so well this season but their top 4 chances are gone now as they have some tough games coming up.

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Can we all just agree to let Brighton and Newcastle have 3rd and 4th? I’m not sure either Utd or Liverpool fans can handle missing out on top 4 and seeing the other one get it.

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Oh I know Lucky 😄. Ten Hag is something like the 8/9th longest serving manager in the league now I think so the “Erik Ten (time period)” joke has lost all its shine now anyway 😁

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Oh it would be a massive opportunity missed Lucky and we’d have bottled it Arsenal style. No getting away from it. But all of Klopp, Pep and Arteta had iffy first seasons in the league. It’s essential to take the positives from this season and let Ten Hag continue to build the side he needs, whatever happens now.

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Yeah Liverpool have some nice games now and are playing with no fear. They’ve nothing to lose. I don’t think anyone doubts Liverpool’s ability to get their job done. It’s whether or not Utd or Newcastle continue to falter and let them in. The way Utd are playing and with Newcastle having some awkward remaining games, there’s every chance now.

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This is the first weeks rest Utd will have had since September, as well as having a lot of players going far in the World Cup.

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