[Editor]

He seems a real piece of work Adlab, that’s for sure. Still, I think there are reasons to dislike the whole principle around state ownership that extend beyond merely skin colour. I mean, I haven’t heard him criticize the Everton ownership, for example, and they’re not white.

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Utd don’t need a state ownership to be able to compete. In fact, looking at the Qataris chaotic running of PSG, I’m not sure it would get us any closer. Utd simply need an owner who can put the right people in place to make footballing decisions. They need investment into the infrastructure, stadium etc. They need to stop paying out a billion in debt repayments to the likes of the Glazers. Money which should have been invested into the club, preventing Utd from falling way behind in terms of facilities which has a massive effect on the ability to attract players.

I’d absolutely hate it if it turned out that Utd became state owned. As you say Sean, it’s embarrassing to see both some Liverpool and Utd fans calling for that kind of ownership. Sadly, the size of the fanbases means you’ll always see a big difference in opinion amongst the fans. I want to say I’d stop supporting the club if that happened but I’m not sure I could. I don’t feel they deserve that power over me. My support would change. I wouldn’t be financially supporting the club in any way, that’s for sure. I just feel way took invested in the club now to let my continued support be decided by who owns the club. Utd fans already hate their owners so we’re very used to being able to separate the club and its history from the people who own it.

It really is a sad state of affairs when fans see state ownership as the only way their clubs can compete with Saudi Arabia and Abu Dhabi going forwards.

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Totally understand your feelings Chucky. I think we’re 3-4 years away from this league becoming a battle of the States with Newcastle and City battling to have the shiniest toys to show off and the rest of us left to fight it out for everything else. We’ve got to the point where younger fans are just clamouring for oil states to buy their clubs because that’s the only way they can compete for trophies. Quite sad in a way.

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Congrats to the City fans on here. Hope you’re still reading somewhere Brian 🙏

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Again, it’s not the fact City have caught them IMO which makes them bottlers. You simply can’t afford to slip up against City and I get that. This wasn’t a normal loss of form though. It’s the manner of the defeats that defines it as an implosion rather than simply bad form or not having the legs. Yesterday they were absolutely torn to shreds by Brighton. That’s not bad form. That’s a capitulation. Not having the legs is playing every 3 days and running out of steam. They’ve been playing no more than once a week for the best part of 2 months. Besides, Arteta is an incredibly irritating individual on the sideline so I’m much more content calling them bottlers whatever anyone else says 😂

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It’s usually a lot earlier and if it was the first 7 games of the season that they dropped points but then they got to this stage on this level of points we couldn’t possibly describe it as bottling a title, we would just praise the improvement. Seems rather unfair that the point at which you experience bad form determines how the 38 games as a whole should be judged.

I totally understand your point here Lucky but that’s just the nature of sport and performance measurement in general. Say, for example, Arsenal had lost these games at the beginning of the season and rallied around to get up to where they now are and finish a few points behind City. The end result would be the same but they are completely different situations. Failing at the vital moments when the pressure is on is when character and mentality is put to the test. There is no pressure on Arsenal at the beginning of the season. Lots of decent sides win when the pressure is off. Performing when the pressure is at its peak is a sign of where you’re at, not doing so when it doesn’t really mean anything. Spurs were the masters of it under Poch. They lost a league to Leicester when everyone else was faltering. They didn’t turn up in a CL final. The choked in both cases. That’s not to say they didn’t do well getting there, too.

It’s not “unfair” imo to compare losing games you shouldn’t when not under pressure to losing games you shouldn’t when the pressure is at its highest.

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As I said, it’s on a lesser scale but nobody had us finishing top 4 but we’ll have bottled it massively if we now lose it simply because we put ourselves in such a great position for that to not be a risk. Expectations change throughout the season.

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Spot on Steve. It’s entirely possible for both to be true. You did overachieve and you did choke when it really mattered at a time when you dropped points you shouldn’t be doing. That you had that run in recent weeks dropping all those silly points is nothing to do with City being better. You didn’t lose 0-3 at home to Brighton because City are better than you.

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Mental exhaustion?! 😆. They’ve only been playing PL games for a while now. All the other teams around them have been competing on multiple fronts. They’ve had a massive advantage on that front.

I don’t for a minute demand they be good enough to win the league. That run of results I mentioned was nothing to do with them being tired or not good enough. Their performances until that point are evidence of that. As I said, I can praise them for getting that far while also having a go at their collapse. Safe to say we’ll not agree on this one Lucky 🙂

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I don’t agree with the marathon thing tbh. Arsenal had this in their hands and weren’t “overtaken by the better runner” so to speak. They imploded in games which should have been in the bag. They were awful against City. Fine, City can do that to anyone. But they were in a position where that City game needn’t have mattered. Potential champions don’t throw away two 2 goal leads on the bounce, concede 3 against the worst side in the league at home, almost losing and get torn apart by Brighton at home (themselves fresh off a 5-1 home humbling against Everton). It’s a well done on the progress from me but they won’t escape criticism from me for that collapse. I’m seeing lots of Arsenal fans saying the same tbh.

If I could modify the marathon analogy to oneI feel better reflects the race than your “the better runner overtook them” I’d say Arsenal were the runner who led for 80% of the race with just the home straight remaining and City nowhere in sight only to trip over his own laces 4 times before stumbling over the line in 2nd place despite many having tipped him to not even be top 5.

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It’s always a difficult one that Lucky. I think there are two camps. Those that think you can’t be bottlers if you overachieved against expectations and those that think you very much can. I’m very much in the latter category. Take my own team. Nobody had us to finish in the top 4 this season. Despite that, we’d be massive bottlers if we fail to get it now because of the lead we’d have thrown away. IMO you can very much overachieve against initial expectations AND be massive bottlers. Leicester another great example. They had a couple of seasons where they spent a ridiculous amount of time in the top 4 spots only to collapse at the final moments.

That Arsenal will thrown away two 2 goal leads against Liverpool and West Ham, drew at home to the bottom side in the league (almost losing) and got battered by Brighton at home is unforgivable for a top 4 side, never mind one fighting for the title. They should be praised for their progress while also being torn apart for their subsequent collapse. Both can be true imo.

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Arsenal massive bottlers again under Arteta. Shameful how they’ve collapsed these last few weeks and with no other competition to distract them. The problem with having now done that twice (last season with top 4) is that it starts to become an expectation, a habit. Just as winning can be a habit, so can falling at the final hurdle. It will need some strong characters to shake that out of the team now.

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Probably a wise choice considering Chelsea’s current status as a club. Not too dissimilar to when he took over Spurs who were, at the time, another fallen giant who were badly struggling. I don’t particularly fear Chelsea initially under Poch but he could get them back to a point where an elite manager could then come in and do the rest, as others have alluded to.

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Yeah how does that work with the San Siro? Is there any difference in the home and away aspect of this tie? Do they get a bigger fan allocation for the home leg?

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Rover, I don’t want any other side to win anything aside from mine. I would hope all fans are like that. City are no different in that regard.

What rubs me up the wrong way is this “poor City, everyone hates us. Why do all decisions go against us?” kind of attitude from City fans. Especially when they got very fortunate with the ball being out before the goal yesterday. If that had happened to Liverpool or Utd, there would be bedlam.

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City really got away with one there. What’s the point of VAR if they don’t even check it for such blatant decisions?

🎙️| Arsene Wenger: "VAR should have checked Bernardo Silva's controlling the ball out of play."

beIN Sports later confirmed with 3D technology that the ball was indeed out of play. #rmalive pic.twitter.com/ekcuhoU0Jn

— Madrid Zone (@theMadridZone) May 9, 2023

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You have to be joking Adlab, surely? Nothing about the ball being out before the City goal?

🗣️ Carlo Ancelotti: “For me, the ball went out but according to the referee, it didn’t. I don't understand why they did not use VAR." pic.twitter.com/zoNcZgAQL8

— Football Tweet ⚽ (@Football__Tweet) May 9, 2023

Or this from Bernardo somehow not leading to a red?

This Bernardo Silva challenge on Camavinga 😨 pic.twitter.com/YpK323K8hq

— ESPN FC (@ESPNFC) May 9, 2023

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Incredible result by Everton away at Brighton. When you look at the stats, it’s hard to understand how they got that result. Brighton had almost 80% of the ball, 23 shots and actually had a higher xg than Everton. I didn’t see the game but it looks like a case of one team more than taking their chances and the other not taking theirs. Brighton have done so well this season but their top 4 chances are gone now as they have some tough games coming up.

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Can we all just agree to let Brighton and Newcastle have 3rd and 4th? I’m not sure either Utd or Liverpool fans can handle missing out on top 4 and seeing the other one get it.

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Oh I know Lucky 😄. Ten Hag is something like the 8/9th longest serving manager in the league now I think so the “Erik Ten (time period)” joke has lost all its shine now anyway 😁

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