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Sean, as I said IMO you should give managers time if there are signs of progress. Rodgers finished 7th but Liverpool were 8th the season before. That’s progress. We’ve never finished as low as 8th in the PL so you can’t compare them. We were ridiculous for giving Ole the job. Even more ridiculous for giving him the permanent role and we would have exceeded that by letting him stay after being hammered at home by Liverpool and City. There’s giving time and there’s just being far too accepting of undperformance. If Utd were shoeing clear signs of progress in performances understand such as Ten Hag but we were inconsistent and finished 8th, I’d not be against him staying and I think the board would agree. If we were only interested in the short term, we’d have got Conte. The fact we didn’t want him should tell you that the board want a long term plan. Whether it works or not remains to be seen.
People were calling for Klopp’s head after a season. Same last season during that spell of 6 home defeats, people were calling for his head. That’s someone who has achieved so much. Fans are fickle Sean.
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but Ed are you not contradicting yourself here aswell? You say there was no real issue with him until the Liverpool ,city defeats etc so why would people constantly remind you that no other club would give him time when you say there was absolutely no fears about him? Thatβs a bit confusing to be honest π
Not at all Sean. I never thought he was good enough and I said it was a mistake from day one. I still think he did an OK job though under the circumstances. My point is that the board had no plans to get rid of him despite rival fans (and some of ours) constantly saying we were being too kind by keeping him longer than any other top club would. In the end, those defeats made it impossible to keep him. You simply can’t stay after losing those 2 games in that manner.
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“Feel for Everton. They keep making terrible manager appointments. Lampard another one who is clearly not up to the job.”
You might be right Ed but whoever came in to replace Rafa was facing a massive uphill task at Everton they were/are in a real mess and whoever was Manager would have faced a massive struggle to get out of it.
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Man utds problems run deeper than who the current manager is. They need a club strategy where they identify a style and buy players that fit. When they change managers they continue this theme meaning they don’t have to start all over again each time.
Look at City and how many players Pep inherited that already fit his system, one I believe the City hierarchy were always aiming for.
Rangnick was never going to work with his high energy style with players like Pogba, Ronaldo and Fernandes. Likewise a slow defender like Maguire would never be suitable to a high line tactic that most top teams play, or Wan Bissaka a full back that can defend well but offers little going forward.
I’ve said for a few years I have no idea what style of play Utd are trying to play. It seems they buy big players and shoehorn them in without any thought to the outcome.
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Ah Ed there was muted calls for Klopp to go from a few people on the internet. There was never ever uproar as clear progress was being made. You could see from day 1 they style he was going to implement. Not on sane Liverpool fan was calling for Klopp to go after 6 home defeats.
You make sone valid points about utds situation. I just donβt think anyone will be given the 18/24 months to do a full rebuild. Ad an opposing fan, I would really be worried about poch or ten haggard but I would have been concerned about conte conimg in
Time will tell chum. Just think utds situation is very similar to liverpools for decades and it took us years and years to get lucky with the right man
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Perfect summary three ps.
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Conte has been awful at Spurs Sean. You keep saying they have a poor squad but that’s no excuse with some of the performances Spurs have put in against much poorer sides. They were outclassed by Boro. Lost to Southampton and Wolves at home. Games they should be winning. Because we’ve got it wrong doesn’t mean Conte would have been right. We massively dodged a bullet there. You can’t have seen him after games recently. He’s been a ticking time bomb.
Threeps, I don’t disagree with that. I said when he came in that we wouldn’t see a new manager bounce for that very reason. This was never going to be an overnight fix as he doesn’t have the players to play how he wants.
I just donβt think anyone will be given the 18/24 months to do a full rebuild.
Well, if we gave Ole 2 and a half seasons, Mourinho the same, I have no reason to doubt we’d be prepared to do that again. They each had more than enough time to show they could take the side forward. If Chelsea had given Lampard more time, they wouldn’t be where they are now. If Rodgers had got more time at Liverpool, where would they be now? You don’t just blindly give managers more time because it’s the right thing to do.
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No, definitely Nine. Look at the run he has now. It’s them or Leeds I reckon
It doesnβt appear to be getting much easier for Everton either!π³ pic.twitter.com/AyNYSz6EpF
— Footy Accumulators (@FootyAccums) March 7, 2022
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Your missing my point ed. Jose had won two trophies and ole was getting to semi finals etc
If ten hagg has a full clear out and rebuild and finished 7th/8th in first season then he needs another season. Moyes got 9 months on a 6 year contract. The new Manager needs time no matter how bad the first season but I do understand why that wonβt happen.
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I know it may not be the thing to say but I wonder if Lampard is really up to it or is he relying on his player reputation.
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Sean, Rodgers got Liverpool second and Lampard got to a final. Neither got much more time though. It’s far too simple to say Ten Hag, Poch or whoever should get more time and shouldn’t be sacked if they come 8th. If they come 8th and are playing terribly and we seem to be going backwards, he has to be gone. If he got 8th but there was a clear style developing and the squad was showing signs of improvement, I think he’d be kept. No other top club in Europe keeps Ole as long as we did. Not one. That’s actually a negative, though, in my opinion. We need to be more like Chelsea. More ruthless. You can be ruthless with managers and still have a long term plan and vision. Like Chelswa have done, we need to build a proper footballing structure at board level and that’s where you get your continuity, meaning you can chop and change head coach if things aren’t working but retain a culture/style.
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My wider point being that you don’t have to stick with a manager/head coach to work towards a long term plan. If you get the right structure in place, realising a manager isn’t the right man shouldn’t mean you’re abandoning long term plans. It simply means you’ve identified that particular person isn’t the one best suited to taking the club to where they need to be.
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The only post Fergie Man Utd managers who have actually won trophies of note are Van Gaal & Mourinho, i.e. big names. Moyes & Solksjaer, the longer term men, didn’t win anything. As I said before, the spending power of Utd is actually causing them a problem in that because they simply have the money to spend, it gets the better of them and they keep spending big on players. So in that sense, Conte would actually make a lot more sense, volatile or not. If Man Utd are to go with a long term man, they also need the recruitment structure in place to take control of the situation. Is that going to happen? I can’t help but feel that if things aren’t going well on the pitch, the Glazers will react and bring in a big name to appease the fans. So somebody somewhere needs to take control of that club. They’ve been drifting since Fergie left. But there’s the real root of the problem – where is the leadership in that club? And with the incoming revenues still high, where is the motivation to change things? Hence only when those revenue streams start declining will you think things may change.
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Ed valid points
Rodgerβs was given another 3 moths after finishing 6th the season after coming 2nd
Why would utd sack ole 2 years in when he was doing ok?so itβs not like he got longer. He was doing well . Not losing away, getting to finals , spending money, building a teamβ¦ they sacked him when it got bad which was fair enough but Its not like he was doing absolutely rubbish and they stuck with him after two years? Soo donβt get they stick with him as he was actually doing well???
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I don’t think United were doing well under Ole particularly towards the end of Ole’s reign it was awful and it was clear the players weren’t behind him.
Unfortunately the long term appointment of Ole was the wrong decision from the start and his CV didn’t justify that appointment.
No Manager at any Club will get time if there is no sign of progress and they continue to lose games.
The Ed is right when he says all football fans are fickle, no matter the Club no matter the Manager. In respect of Klopp he had won the CL and the PL and had a lot of credit in the Bank with both FSG and the Liverpool fans but had that poor run of results continued in a period where Klopp wasn’t at his best over time he would have come under pressure look what happend to Rafa and Dalglish they were both Liverpool legends and Frank Lampard was a Chelsea legend but they all went the same way.
United’s problem right now is the future managerial choices available are limited it’s confirmed by the Ed’s view that ten Hag is probably the man who United should be appointing but even now he’s not sure he’s the right appointment.
Short term Conte was probably the best choice for United and I think he wanted it but I think the Ed is right it might have bought a couple of trophies in but over a 2 year period Conte would have spent a lot of money on senior players and then when he didn’t get his own way he would have thrown his toys out of the pram and moved on/been moved on which is how it’s been across his whole career.
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Sone very valid points nine me aul chum. Good post mate
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Why has Liverpool been used as an example?
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Has Conte really left his previous clubs in worse states than he found them? He left Inter as a league champion, and left Chelsea as a premier league winner and an FA Cup winner.
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Mikus, Conte always wins trophies but it’s an uncomfortable ride particularly in season two if he doesn’t get his own way, great Coach but short term, he’s never gone past season two and has fallen out wherever he’s been. Eventually I was pleased to see him go every press conference became a confrontation.
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