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Hadn’t seen it Ed. But I can see why some fans of other clubs would have suspicions. And I agree, it needs to be more transparent.
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Would any other referee given that penalty?
Has Oliver given a penalty like that before? I have seen incidents like that so many times and never seen a penalty given.
If United had state owners and you had PL refs officiating in the state United owners are from. Would there be a big outcry?
I mean look at that Onana incident on the opening PL fixtures and how many similar incidents have been since, yet not a peep. Raya last weekend being an example.
All VAR has exposed is how corrupt the game is. You have a side with 115 charges for financial doping, now wanting to give our PL referees a bigger pay packet for officiating at games in their owners country.
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Penalty or no penalty? 🤔 #MUNMCI pic.twitter.com/Wenmi0g7j7
— talkSPORT (@talkSPORT) October 29, 2023
Here is a image of the incident, Rashford was being held in the same picture. Why didn’t Oliver see that?
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Our problems last season were more than our injuries although they did play a critical part. Mane leaving. And as much as eyebrows raised on both Fabinho and Hendo leaving, let’s be honest, they were past their peak and were being overran by opposition. It’s such a huge blessing and in sheer gratefulness what we have seen so far in the energy and quality from Zobo and Macca. Gravenberch also making an impression.
We still I feel need reinforcements in defense and I feel this is where United have gone a little bit backwards in their defense structure. Ten Hag is not formulating the right players or if he is trying, the injuries are holding him back from doing so.
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If that’s a penalty then there’ll be 5 or 6 penalties per game!
Don’t think it would of affected the outcome there was a massive gulf in class between the two however. I only switched on after the final whistle at anfield just in time for the penalty but it looked like a City training session at times and I think they had several gears to go up if needed.
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Must admit never expected such a big difference in quality but Pep did select a very attacking side.
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City fully deserved the win, but I wasn’t overly impressed with them, if that makes sense.
United are playing a depleted side. Maguire and Evans are backup CBs, Dalot is 2nd choice RB and Lindelof is a makeshift LB. Casemiro is also missing. Up until that penalty, both sides had their chances.
If you remove Gvardiol, Dias, Stones, Walker and Rodri from that City side. Pep is then relying on scraps and his 4th and 5th choice options. It changes everything.
Saying that, cannot excuse some Uniteds player lacking passion and effort. It is the same old story.
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Thing is, given where Man Utd are at, they need a manager to lift the whole club. I’ve little doubt that if all the structures were healthy at the club, Ten Hag could do a reasonable job of holding the reigns at the club. But they need far more than that from where they are. They need a real charismatic figure to lift things. You look for example at what Ange has done in a very short space of time at Spurs.
Man Utd have just made poor managerial appointments – either hopeful long term figures who have little to no experience of big clubs or safe pairs of hands in established managers who were arguably past their peak.
Now you can ultimately blame the owners for that as they ultimately run the club and appoint all the figures at the club or the figures that make the decisions. But I’m not sure how much of that is a factor, rather I think its the culture at the club which seems to want to do things “the right way” and find another Ferguson for the long term. To me Liverpool seemed to spend an awful long time of keeping the boot room structure at the club or appointing former players before they finally changed and turned to Houllier & Benitez and started winning bigger trophies again. And I think the same is sort of true for Man Utd. They are too set in their ways for me and thinking too much of another long term fairy tale with another Fergie – and I think this is also applying to their recruitment in signing younger, less proven players when they need players for the now. Indeed reading an article about what happened with Emery at Arsenal – he wanted players for the now but was told they were looking more to the future. Now you might say the club was now right but I actually think Arsenal are still lacking top quality players to truly compete for the title.
So I think Arsenal & Man Utd are still living in the shadows of their previous managers – even if Arsenal are doing better, they still haven’t won the league for nearly 20 years.
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Ten Hag has been United’s most successful manager post Ferguson and has had the best debut season imo. United football was good at times last season and they went on a decent unbeaten run.
You look at what he did at Ajax, where they scored a lot of goals and did well in Europe, I believe he is the right man for the job.
Problem is, he has inherited a toxic environment, which seems to come about randomly. It is like a on off switch. Who has caused that? The owners have let the players take over and dictate things.
Read Peps comments after the game. He says he is on the same wavelength as the owners, CEO, sporting directors and other key figures at the club. Klopp is the same at Liverpool.
United do not have a structure in place for a manager to succeed. Everything has been scattergun and no manager would be a success under that environment.
Ole lifted things when Jose got sacked. How long did that work out. Ten Hag lifted things when he won Uniteds 1st trophy in 6 years. Look where are now. Players seem to throw managers under the bus quickly at this club. Why have the owners allowed that to happen?
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Mikus,
You make some good points. But I don’t think United are following Ferguson methods anymore. The Glazers off the pitch are clinging on to his coattail because it is his success which has kept United name on top when it comes to revenue. But on the pitch, they are doing the exact opposite.
Ferguson would never have bought Schweinsteiger, Falcao, Di Maria, Sanchez, Lukaku, Zlatan, Pogba. Most of those players were either past their best or didn’t want to be at the club, they only went there for the pay packet. That is where the club has gone wrong.
The club has become lost over the years.
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Ole & Ten Hag had honeymoon periods, not much more than that for me. They aren’t capable of galvanising a big club forwards imo. And regardless, the club keeps buying players either for the long term, or ones past their peak.
I do wonder if FFP is making teams increasingly play safe by trying to play the longer term game. You look at the teams that win the league and they are the teams that buy players for the now. And it’s not just about money, you can find top players out there that don’t cost the earth. For me, like most things in life, there are very few people out there with the guts to make bold brave decisions to get things done. And now we increasingly have a culture with FFP arguably tending teams to play it “safer” financially by trying to unearth gems for the future.
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Besides from Hojlund, I don’t know who United or Ten Hag have bought for the future recently. They have bought established international players.
You look at Peps and Klopp signings. They have generally bought players who play for a team. United over the years have bought individuals. Some players even forced on to managers and some kept when the manager didn’t want them.
Would Klopp allowed a player like Pogba to join? Because he wouldn’t have had a choice. Van Gaal said United only focused on the commercial aspect when it came to some signings. How would Klopp have dealt with that if he was United?
At United you are not only managing a footballing side, you have to also put up with the brand and commercial side of things.
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So, who, is this manager Utd should obviously be going out to get Mikus? Because it’s fine saying Utd just need to go out and get a manager like Ange who incidentally fits one of the very profiles you suggest we mistakenly keep making in “either hopeful long term figures who have little to no experience of big clubs…” People would have thought Utd were absolutely mental going for Ange Postecoglu when Ole went and rightly so. That he’s started well is simply a stroke of good fortune by Levy, who has made as many, if not more, mistakes than Utd over the last 10 or so years. Let’s maybe see where Ange is in a year or so before suggesting Utd need to just go and get someone like that who’s had a decent start, that’s all.
It all sounds so simple in terms of how to fix it. Before, it was “Utd need Conte”. He flopped big time at Spurs and can’t get another job. Before him, Poch was the answer. He’s now in his own crisis at Chelsea. Now it’s Ange. Utd may well be able to find some available charismatic manager to come in and lift the place but that’s so much tougher than it sounds. Charisma doesn’t win titles. I genuinely think the players have stopped playing for him now and changing the manager merely feeds that behaviour and allows it to win. He’s made some awful mistakes in the transfer market but that will continue to happen until there is a proper structure around him. He may not make it at Utd and that’s fine. But, getting rid now and bringing in a completely new face, whoever that may be, is dangerous in my opinion.
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CM, that’s obviously a problem if true, but has that culture not changed a bit now? Ten Hag actually looks like he’s got too much influence now given the players he’s signed.
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Ed, I completely accept there’s no obvious outstanding candidate I can see who could replace Ten Hag. I’m just exploring the history of why it keeps going wrong. As for Ange, I raise it more to demonstrate how a manager can change things both on and off the pitch, which in turn sharpens minds and raises the level of all the other staff at the club – just like when a club signs a top player – it makes the other players around them better. At the same time though, Ange has managed at clubs around the world and successfully – that carries more weight for me than Ten Hag who’s pretty much only managed in one league. It clearly makes you a more robust character, adds to your experience and proves your man management credentials. Ange just needed someone to take a chance on him, be it by luck or bravery.
To summarise my post, Utd keep bringing in either long term managers with limited experiences or established ones past their peak. I think this also mirrors the player recruitment issues. Change that, and you’ll change the direction of the club.
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Mikus-
Yup. But he also has inherited a lot of tripe which clearly are not good enough and should have been sold years ago. Especially in defence.
You can sort of see what he wants to do, but lacks the squad depth to do it.
If United get rid of him. From all errors they have made over the years, this would be biggest mistake of them all in my opinion. He is someone who has modern day footballing psychology, stuck in a disjointed and unorganised structure.
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Mikus-
Klopp only managed in 1 league. Had a disaster final season at Dortmund and also has a relegation under his belt at Mainz. Ten Hag also did well in Europe at Ajax.
Ange hasn’t accomplished anything at Spurs yet. He literally performing no different to what Ole did when he 1st arrived at United. Managing United compared to Spurs is a different kettle of fish too.
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CM, there was a deeper experience with Klopp in Germany. He took Mainz to the top league in Germany on a small budget and then proved his credentials at a bigger club at Dortmund winning the double. He innovated things to the point where Bayern actually copied him. He was clearly a top communicator and had top man management skills by the bucket load. As for his poor last season, there were circumstances and in any case, he more than proved his credentials at the clubs he managed.
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As for Ange, yes it’s still early, but I think in his two previous jobs he succeeded in two very different countries and cultures. And after 10 games, he’s top of the Premier league. Squad depth and energy may catch up with them, but there’s clearly a good manager there with that recent history.
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Mikus-
Klopp initially did well at Mainz. But he ended getting relegated with them and then left after failing to secure promotion.
He did well at Dortmund. But failed to replicate his success after losing key players and ended up leaving.
Before Ten Hag arrived at Ajax, they failed to win the league in 5 years and he ended up winning 3 during the 4 years he was there. They reached the semi finals of the CL and consistently did well with him in charge.
They now sit bottom of the league.
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