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I really like our owners. They run the club like a business but our huge sports fans and want to win. They have made huge mistakes but have also listened to our fans. They brought in Klopp who had absolutely transformed everything. From top to bottom we are a well run club and tgis was a pipe dream 12 years ago. I’m glad our recent success has come through this model. We buy and sell well. We spend big money but we recoup big money
The refurbishment of anfield and a rest state of the art training ground. It’s a great time to be a Liverpool fan that’s why I don’t get any moaning about our first few games etc
I don’t begrudge city or Newcastle fans and I never begrudged Chelsea fans either. Three clubs who have seen the worst of times.
As threeps says, you can’t pick your owners but I’d much rather our model and owners then pocketless billionaires.
Still I know I’d never walk away no matter who the owners. I’m just happy the way it is at the momEnt as we have had some really bad years under terrible owners
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Lucky, what is the right manager? In the board’s eyes, it seems to be one who can help them win. Ole masked that with his fluke season finishing second. Any other year, no covid and I can’t see how he could repeat that. Once he stopped winning he was sacked. My point is, what constitutes “the right manager”? I’m arguing that Moyes, LVG and Mourinho were possibly the right managers but the board decided otherwise. They could get Pep in and he would fail at Utd because of how they are run.
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I’m arguing that Moyes, LVG and Mourinho were possibly the right managers but the board decided otherwise. They could get Pep in and he would fail at Utd because of how they are run.
See, this theory would have some substance if any of those managers proved afterwards that Utd were wrong to get rid of them. How many fans in this forum would have any of those as their manager today? ….I Didn’t think so 😁
There’s an obsession with deciding it’s either the board or the manager. You’re either team “any manager would fail at Utd” or you’re team “the manager is not good enough”. The reality at Utd IMO is that both have been massive problems. We know the board are problematic by the awful transfer record but that’s far too often used as an excuse for managers failing too. It’s a contributing factor, sure, but to suggest that no manager could succeed at Utd because of the board is, I think, being far too kind to the managers who have failed. Not one of those would get a top job today.
This idea that no top managers would go to Utd today is also a funny one. Who are we classing as the top managers? Klopp, Pep, Conte, Tuchel? None of those are coming to us now regardless of how well we’re run. Conte would have definitely come had we asked him when he was without a job. Poch was interviewed for the Utd job while managing PSG. Who are the other top managers we are talking about? Ten Hag is amongst those for sure. Ancelotti went to Everton so he’d have definitely come to us before Madrid came.
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Ed, I think the PL based on what’s been said by them recently are going to stiffen the fit and proper persons criteria for potential new owners which may well make it more difficult for potential new owners to buy Clubs if their main objective is sports washing.
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The obvious answer to that involves horse, bolt and door…
And would it really work? Do you really think the UK government would allow the “PL” to block one country having already allowed who they have? That’s a diplomatic incident in the making… I can just see the Bahrani’s throwing a hissy-fit because the Saudi’s were allowed and they weren’t….
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Ed, is the managerial issue at Utd not also down to being obsessed with finding the right manager who plays the “Man Utd way”? Sure, they’ve somewhat compromised on that in recent history with the appointments of Van Gaal & Mourinho who were appointed you sense as more temporary managers to try and win some silverware and so keep their stock value at a reasonable level (which both did).
There seems to be an age old debate about recruitment and who buys the players and if the manager should have full control, and that if he doesn’t, he can be sympathised with. I think a manager, particularly when they first arrive at a club, is always going to favour players they’ve previously worked with and will try and ask the board to sign them. But as time goes on, they are going to be more reliant on the club recruitment team to find targets – particularly the up and coming players who are harder to find. But ever since their obsessive journey to find a long term man who ideally plays the Man Utd way, this is going to put more emphasis on club recruitment because the long term managers Man Utd are appointing – Moyes, Solkjaer & Ten Hag – haven’t really worked with many top end players at previous clubs so they are going to be more heavily reliant on the club to find them top players. So if the club recruitment isn’t right, these managers are going to be under more pressure.
In short then, the Man Utd fan needs to decide whether they’re better wanting a winning experienced manager in or a long term “Man Utd way” manager in. If the former, they’ll probably have some success. If they insist on the latter, they’re almost having to hope the Glazers either change things with recruitment or sell the club – which some may say is unrealistic – even if the fans keep protesting.
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Did Ole play the Man Utd way? He relied solely on counter attacking football, sit behind the ball and hit them on the counter. Since when has that been the Utd way?
Ed, it clearly is not the managers’ faults. How many have you been through now? How many of those had excellent records before Utd? You say they’re all shit now, is that what Utd did to them though?
I honestly don’t see how Ten Haag will do any better than any of the predecessors with this environment.
I can’t help but wonder what Mourinho would have done with the money Ole was allowed to spend? Guess we’ll never know, but I really do think Man U have done themselves serious long term damage here and without the cleanout at board level nothing is about to change anytime soon. Fuck me, if reports are correct, you’re about to sign a 31 year old for 50 odd million! Just more throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks.
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Foxy, not here to necessarily defend Ole, but I think he still probably uplifted the football after Mourinho and was perhaps pragmatic to the players he had. I think he was seen as someone to help bed in and develop young players too – so the Man Utd way in that sense. And then the club maybe thought it could bring in a more experienced attacking manager in after that who would keep to those principles.
Additional Edit: Arsenal are trying to do that with Arteta who has played a range of football over his time but that has been better executed than Man Utd, even if there is the odd question mark over Arteta.
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Ed, it clearly is not the managers’ faults. How many have you been through now? How many of those had excellent records before Utd? You say they’re all shit now, is that what Utd did to them though?
Excellent records? Moyes 😁. Moyes did a great job at Everton. Completely different to come and take over from Ferguson having overachieved there, though. He’s doing decent at West Ham now. Van Gaal was way past his best. Hadn’t managed a club for 3 years after being sacked from Bayern following a truly awful season leaving them in 4th place which is criminal for a club like Bayern. Mourinho was past his best having been sacked again by Chelsea. Mourinho is the only one I thought could have possibly worked but his spell at Spurs confirmed to me that he simply isn’t good enough to compete with the top sides.
I haven’t said they’re all shit now at all. I’ve suggested that if Utd were so wrong to blame those managers for their failure, when in fact it was the board’s fault, why have none gone on to better things? So Utd ruined them? Let me put it another way then. Who would have taken those managers at their club prior to Utd appointing them, at that time? Any takers? You might have had a few takers for Mourinho and I’ll concede that I think Mourinho could have potentially worked had he had the full backing but there’s no way he’d still be there now regardless. Mourinho never did long spells, broken structure above him or not. Would Mourinho have left Utd in a better place with more backing? I see little evidence from the other clubs he’s left to suggest that is the case.
As I keep saying, the two (it’s the board or it’s the manager) aren’t mutually exclusive. It can be bad choice of manager after bad choice of manager as well as the board having no clue. The desire to blame one and exonerate the other is ridiculous. If anything, the fact we have a crap board gives me even less confidence that they miraculously were able to find good managers (who only failed because of the people above them) when they couldn’t get much else right.
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Ed, is the managerial issue at Utd not also down to being obsessed with finding the right manager who plays the “Man Utd way”? Sure, they’ve somewhat compromised on that in recent history with the appointments of Van Gaal & Mourinho who were appointed you sense as more temporary managers to try and win some silverware and so keep their stock value at a reasonable level (which both did).
Possibly Mikus. I think there’s something in that. I think most clubs crave two things to varying degrees. They want entertaining football and they want relative success. Very few managers provide both consistently. If one is missing, the other one needs to be present. Boring football will keep fans happy as long as you’re winning and entertaining football keeps fans happy to a degree even if there is less success than desired.
Utd compromised on the entertaining football with both Mourinho and Van Gaal. Both would have got much longer had they delivered enough of the other (success) to make up for it. I think the board were stuck when it came to Mourinho. You know he’s short term so just how much are you prepared to compromise on the entertaining football for short term success and therein lies the problem. That battle has been ongoing for years. I maintain that Utd’s biggest mistake is not having the right people making the strategic decisions on how the club is run, going from one extreme to the other (in the above style vs success priority battle). However, I also think the managers have been bad choices.
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Ok, fair points, but what chance would a really top manager have at Utd with a dysfunctional board???? They don’t have to be mutually exclusive of blame, but if the board that appoints managers and seems to make player acquisitions is faulty you are setting both the managers and players up for failure. You can’t keep “fixing” one part of the equation without fixing the source of the problem.
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Since pre Porto the only club Jose has failed to win a trophy at is the club that sacked him the week of a final. He is not one of the bottle he is a special one 😆
I do get why many think he is passed it and I won’t argue that its just opinions.
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Ok, fair points, but what chance would a really top manager have at Utd with a dysfunctional board???? They don’t have to be mutually exclusive of blame, but if the board that appoints managers and seems to make player acquisitions is faulty you are setting both the managers and players up for failure. You can’t keep “fixing” one part of the equation without fixing the source of the problem.
Well certainly less than at a better run club, that’s for sure. However, a really top manager would have a much better chance of success at a badly run club than a not-so-good manager would, too. The board is a problem, but not the problem IMO.
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Foxy, as I see it there is nothing wrong with the money made available by glaziers for recruitment but its the recruitment itself that has been consistently bad.
Right manager + right recruitment + time = utd kicking ass again.
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I do think the Man Utd fans are quite influential on this though, and I think it’s part of the reason why Solksjaer and Ten Hag were appointed. As I say though, these managers, having more limited experience and not having worked with a raft of top players means they need more help from the club in recruiting players. So is protesting and hoping the Glazers sell realistic on the fans part to get what they want with these managers?
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Mikus..Peter Swales was a City fan but did not have enough expertise to run the club. He made many statements that City fans never believed. We had the Mercer/Allison era when things could have gone differently but Joe was moved on and Allison was not good enough to carry on without him. I also think any Manager must have a good support team, City , Liverpool have it. I think Newcastle will get along with Chelsea but no Manager can do it on his own that is why I referred to Mercer/Allison era…maybe more so to day.
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ED…the Guardian stopped being a paper when it left Manchester and dropped Manchester from its name, moved to London . As to the human rights issues, like I have said before, we, as a nation have issues also. This does not make it right of course but it is totally unrealistic to ask Pep, an individual just like you or I can have any effect. The whole thing is now highly politicised and can do more harm to football unless it is toned down. I understand the Guardian and others would like to keep the subject going to give them headlines.I supported City when they were bankrupt and well remember Utd fans, including some of my own family mocking me relentlessly . Human rights will respond to political pressures not football clubs fans but be careful not enhance individual cases without knowing everything about it. Saudi is not like the UK where anyone can come in and feel they can do what they want to our culture, they have laws which they apply, so, if you go there you had better be aware of them. I would not like it myself but then I choose not to go
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ED…as A PS…..I am withdrawing from this conversation because I just do not like talking about Human rights, Wokeism, Diversity, etc etc. it is just too depressing. I respect people who stand up for believes but when it gets overheated and irrational it all goes to far.We all have our views
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