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Pagan, as per my post above offside is not considered a clear and obvious error in respect of VAR it’s a black and white decision and impossible to get wrong.
Currently second phase is not irrelevant as the Salah ruling proved.
Unlike you I don’t forsee doom and gloom where VAR takes over every decision but time will tell.?
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First of all, this “phase of play” is confusing as per reasons the puppy has already mentioned. Another “example” would be yesterday when Wee Tammy claimed for, and got, a corner that was not a corner. What if a goal came from that? I’d be livid… (obviously you can’t have VAR check every corner/throw-in) but that would also come under “clear and obvious” error in my book.
Secondly, off-side… there seems to be a lot of confusion about which part of what person counts as the lines to be measured. Would it be easier to simply pick a spot on each player which would be relatively easy to measure from? I’m thinking something like the off-side in ice-hockey, where it’s simply measured from where the skates are, regardless of sticks, elbows or “pubes”. Still not sure which part of Sonny was “offside” according to the “pixals”…
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Chuckles, any part of the body you can score with is the definition of offside
999, the second phase of play doesnβt happen if the correct decision is given initially.
…..Pagan
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I agree what you are saying about the 2nd phase nine.
I donβt think var was used in the Liverpool game againest Southampton last season but I do remember sky saying var wouldnβt have over ruled it? Grey area
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The bottom line now is that the bar is so high (or absolute rather) with offsides that being level is still effectively offside because the attacker needs only to be so fractionally over the line like Son that he is still penalised. So all weβve done is as previously we gave the benefit of the doubt to the attacker weβre now giving the defender the advantage – and as Sean questions – Iβm sure thatβs why Liverpool are now playing this higher lane because they know now theyβll almost always win the calls.
So this will result in fewer goals being scored. Also there may now be a premium on extremely quick attackers who will still be able to beat the offside trap in this new format.
As for this phase of play talk, doesnβt this just prove Paganβs point that whilst on the outset VAR is claiming only to interfere as lightly as possible with this βclear and obviousβ tag, in reality itβs creating this minefield of when a second phase begins to judge on whether an advantage has been unfairly gained and itβs use will eventually be widespread, e.g. you could also argue that even if a goal wasnβt scored from the initial offside, the attacking team has still been able to unfairly pressure the other team which could contribute to them conceding later in the game. Where does one draw the line in such things? The answer is that *all* offsides will probably have to be eventually penalised. This is the Pandoraβs box that is VAR. Once youβve opened it, be prepared for the consequences.
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Peggy.. so technically, pubes can be offside?? π
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Oliver Giroud is in the shower as we speak, getting rid of his facial pubes…
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hell of a weekend of football, ignoring the “VAR talk” which is just another way of bemoaning a refs decision, maybe they will “even out over the course of a season” π
Spuds lost
united lost
Arsenal (somehow, despite their very best efforsts not to) Won!few more weeks like that would be super duper π
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Buffy-Not just Spuds & United,Chelsea lost too.lol
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“999, the second phase of play doesnβt happen if the correct decision is given initially.”
But Pagan the right decision was given Mount was offside the only debate was whether the goal should have been allowed to stand by the Video Referee because it fell into the second phase. His judgement was it didn’t but that’s a judgement decision.
I tend to agree with Mikus to keep things simple we probably need to forget 2nd phase.
I think Chucky maybe on to something with his Ice Hockey comparison maybe if we moved to both feet needing to be offside it would cut out the really border line decisions but ultimately any changes to VAR if there are to be any will have to be agreed by FIFA and implemented world wide.
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If they changed it to “whole torso”, it would still come down to insanely narrow “is it whole torso” calls. It’s got to come down to some kind of pedantic ruling. If it’s going to need a certain level of resolution, just award attacker advantage and get on with the game. I honestly couldn’t give a urine sample about whether or not his big toe is marginally offside. Award the damn goal because it’s just ridiculous.
The only way to really beat the thing is as I said last night, with using location sensors but until we’re at a time when this is viable, they need to calm down with the precision and put all their efforts into shaving off seconds from these decisions. The season is only 6 games in, there will be SO MANY of these kinds of incidents both correct and incorrect. Each one will trigger discussion on the matter and I’m sure the refs and clubs will have meetings about how to improve things. Until then, I think we’re generally agreed on most of it, even if we have slightly different angles of approach.
it’s this 1st and 2nd phase stuff that I imagine we’re more unsure about. I certainly don’t know the defining principles of it. I mean, I have an idea/outline of it but I don’t know where you draw the line between phases. What potential actions take place to definitely say “new phase of play”. I’m sure they will have proper guide-lines and that it’s not just something they off-handedly decide based purely on time or touches. … I hope so anyway.
Anyway, some good discussion alright. I’m not even finished catching up actually.
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Chucky, I’d imagine that once they iron the wrinkles out of VAR, they will take a look at corners and free-kicks etc. You’re right. Something as small as a corner awarded instead of a goal-kick could swing a game and let’s be honest, it would be a lot easier to look at who the ball last touched, with reasonable speed.
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Mikus, a brilliant post there and you’ve hit a few nails on the head. It really does change the dynamics and in a negative way. If they get their act together, drop the pedantic pubes stuff and just award attacker advantage when it’s extremely close, it can put things back mostly the way they were before.
As for the phase of play stuff. I’m not keen on this. I think offside should be offside, so what I’d suggest is a 20 second timer from when the ball enters the goal. If you’re offside at any time in there, goal disallowed.. Now, in order to avoid them always checking 20 seconds of material (not gonna be needed 99.9% of the time), just say “up to 20 seconds” and they will know themselves whether or not to.
I say this but who knows, maybe this phase of play stuff will make sense and work well, in time.
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What happens when/if a player is well endowed and his Richard is slightly offside?
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Makalele’s career would be in ruins if he still played.
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Well, if this one counted… π
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Makaleleβs career would be in ruins if he still played. Why Mak,what arent you telling us?Lol
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Iβve said this before, if you have to look at it several times, itβs not a clear and obvious error. That should cut the decision time down considerably. Get rid of the ridiculous micro analysis and just cut the howlers out…..Pagan
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Chuckles, technically yes you could score with your pubes, but only if youβve got a knob like a button….Pagan
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I have a genuine question using Sonny in Saturday’s game vs Leicester as an example, when they show the offside/onside footage for a VAR decision, is the player who passed to Sonny in view ??
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