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Chelsea and United have had their wicked way with Transfers beyond, so both can’t play victim.
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As ridiculous as it sounds chelsea.man the figures seem about right, just took rounded figures from this site and added them up https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/chelsea-fc/transfers/verein/631/plus/0?saison_id=2019&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=
13/14 – 117.32m spent 69.69m received – net 47.63m
14/15 – 123.93m spent 130.37m received – net-6.44m
15/16 – 81.45m spent 78.74m received – net 2.71m
16/17 – 119.52m spent 97.56m received – net 21.96m
17/18 – 234.45m spent 180.54m received – net 53.91m
18/19 – 189m spent 64.58m received – net 124.43m
19/20 – 40.5m spent 131.18m receive – net -90.68mTotal spent 906.16m Total received 752.66m Total spend Net 153.5m
That means in terms of investment in the team we have averaged just over 20m a year Net spend. Roman has not subsidised us for ages the net spend is easily covered by legit turnover.
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Mak, with the greatest respect mate you’re trying to fix a problem that doesn’t exist as Klopp rightly said in his post match interview Offside is the most objective element of VAR it’s black and white you’re either onside or offside Mount just like in the two cases in the Leicester v Spurs game was offside the only debate in relation to the Mount offside decision is whether the goal was scored in the second phase as the goal by Salah was judged to be last season in the away game v Southampton.
The Mount decision was a judgemental one taken by Andre Mariner in Stockley Park and has nothing to do with the VAR technology.
We are getting these offside decisions absolutely right now despite the fact that it cost Chelsea at least a point today and my concerns about 2nd phase.
Is it frustrating to have a goal ruled out like this? Of course it is and whether overall it’s good for the game is admittedly questionable when you see the goal celebrations by fans and players and a few minutes later the goal is over ruled but technology wise VAR is getting these offside decisions right whether we like them particularly the marginal ones or not and whether it’s actually good for the game is another thing.
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Problem is Ed, you would effectively have to demote Woodward and thatโs never ideal in a business environment and going back into your old job is never quite the same as it was. I suspect heโll leave completely when it comes to it.
As for the future direction of the club, letโs be honest, whilst money will always play a key role, itโs still ultimately a top manager that gets a club moving because only he can give them that identity and make them feel special so the players can buy into the managers philosophy. Mourinho gets a lot of criticism but he arguably played a key role in setting up Chelsea to the stature they now have – take him out of Chelseaโs history and for all of Romanโs money, I just donโt think theyโd be the same club as they are now and the players he bought in set the legacy of the club and made it easier for future managers. Much as Guardiola has done for City. Yet Ferguson didnโt leave Man Utd in a particularly good shape did he? But to be fair he rebuilt several generations of successful teams and 27 years is obviously incredible service so you canโt really have a go at him for the way Utd were left at the end of his reign. So Man Utd needed a new charismatic manager and identity to replace him when he left so that a new chapter could be set in motion. The best theyโve had since is Mourinho yet they didnโt seem to trust him because they were hellbent on keeping their historic identity instead of Mourinhoโs identity. Well, thatโs not got them far has it?
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I forgot to mention that it’s worth pointing out that Lampard figured out a way to play against Klopp and exploit the wings backs today. It’s not all credit to Lampard, as we have not been what we were defensively, so far this season… however, ye were just wrecking Trent today. I was a bag of nerves watching it all game. It didn’t help of course that Salah and Mane were both off form on top of that but massive massive credit to Matip and Adrian, who were a last line of defence on many occasions.
I’m going to annoy the Liverpool fans on here but although Fabinho had a good game, he was too coy for the Chelsea goal. It’s his job to make sure that run doesn’t happen. Maybe it’s a case of Wijnaldum not carrying his weight today and Fabinho had too much to do.. it could be. Whatever it is, it’s gotta be sorted out though because if Chelsea had been better on their final ball, Matip and Adrian wouldn’t have been able to save out asses. Also, I think something looked a bit off with Van Dijk. He seemed very tired. His usual flawless positioning and reading of the game was not on point today. He usually looks so effortless and maybe he’s usually exerting himself a lot less because of his reading of the game and today it just wasnt quite there, so he suffered? Thoughts there lads? Was I imagining this?
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“Mak, with the greatest respect mate youโre trying to fix a problem that doesnโt exist as Klopp rightly said in his post match interview Offside is the most objective element of VAR itโs black and white”
A problem definitely does exist though. The problem is the time it takes to determine the offside. Wouldn’t it be good if today you got a flag 2-5 seconds after the goal, instead of the 15 to 30 that it was?
Even with the tech involved one aside, the problem can still be alleviated by the VAR ref havbing instructions to award attacker advantage if he sees that it’s marginal and will take time to determine and confirm (or whatever is taking them so f-ing long).
When something is straight forward like an offside then speed is the issue.
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One defeat, and all this kicks off. Afterwards, and ultimately, there’s always a ‘few Glasses’ and ‘Aftermath’.
Humans Deep Down.
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Congratulations and Commiserations have been said, so why all this?
Residual Resentment?
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I always find the gross vs net spend argument to be a tricky one as both are somewhat flawed. The problem with looking at net spending is this:
Imagine a new manager coming into City, Chelsea and Utd now. At City the new manager could sell about 300mil worth of talent without touching the first team squad and he’d be able to “hardly spend anything” yet bring in lots of top reinforcements to a team of superstars. A net spend analysis would make him appear to be a miracle worker. At Chelsea, they have so many good players out on loan that there is lots to be sold off too, to generate spending money. A new Utd manager coming in now and who would you sell to give you money to spend without severely weakening the first team?
Now I’m not saying that means Gross spending is more accurate because it’s not. But I think without any context, neither are perfect.
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As for the rest of your discussion regards the rules versus what is actually good for the game. That’s why I took a kinda hypothetical step away… because I don’t feel the rules as they stand are good for the game. Of course there is the position that these are teething problems and that may well be the case. I hope so.
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Yep very good points Mikus.
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Mikus, why would they have to demote him? You can remove responsibilities from any employee. You can come to an arrangement to terminate any contract.
A very good post though Mikus. Agreed about a manager being the main thing, however with such incompetence above modern manager level, I feel even Klopp would be partially hamstrung at Utd. Would he do a lot better than Ole? of course he would but he’d not win any titles with that squad. He might get top 4. MIGHT. Of course an inherited squad is only a starting point but how much input do managers have these days? Klopp didn’t want Salah (neither did I). Edwards had to pull him aside and say “hey, my team are going crazy about this guy.”. I’m not sure who made the decision to go for Klopp but utd need that person (assuming it’s Woodward level) to KNOW the right manager to go for and to know that kind of thing it so set the rest in motion.
It all comes down to Woodward being fired and replaced by literally anyone from this forum. This is just as funny as it is correct. Thats how out of touch with the sport he is.
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Some good Highlights on now Match Of The Day 2 regarding the Rest Of This Weekend’s Action.
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Mak, I am not sure how the units of measurements for the margins can be defined, but if you take the graphics they used to show the two lines representing son and the defender I would say that any goal referred to VAR should be allowed if the attacker is no further than say 4 lines ahead of the last defender. If he is over 4 lines clear then it will be immediately apparent and the goal can be dis-allowed very quickly, if the player is within 4 lines of the defender on the graphic we give advantage to the striker and allow the goal. If it is not clear whether in 4th or 5th line, give the goal. The game is about goals and if teams create great goals that are dis-allowed because of such ridiculously pedantic calls the game will suffer 100% I have no doubt, it already is.
Nine is right though, in that as the rules are now the decision is right.
However, it is not improving the game, and as you referred to it is not really necessary to be this pedantic when you consider the nature and reason for the offside rule in itself. Son for example was doing his absolute best to stay onside and not get an unfair advantage, and on top of that he was doing what we actually pay to see players do. I also think it is really important for everyone to realise that the still frame we see is not the exact frame at which the passer makes contact with the ball, it can not be measured accurately, I think because of this a small margin or allowance as referred to would be reasonable and in keeping with the spirit of the game.
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๐ Really Happy for Unai, absolutely brilliant comeback by the Gunners.
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Aubameyang!!!!!! ๐
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Mak, Ed was talking about moving Woodward back into his old job and thatโs what I was responding to – that that would be demoting him which is never ideal. As I say, I suspect heโll leave the club anyway.
As for Klopp, yes itโs a good point that heโs had significant help with signings, but as I say I donโt think Utd ever bought into Mourinhoโs philosophy and both the recruitment team and manager have to some extent sing from the same hymn sheet. Instead they tried to hold onto their attacking identity by throwing big bucks at โexcitingโ players like Pogba and Sanchez and instructed Mourinho to buy into that rather than the other way around.
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Now Iโm not saying that means Gross spending is more accurate because itโs not. But I think without any context, neither are perfect.
Agree Ed, but with context Net spend is far more telling, as is wage bill.
I get your example but do you not think selling de bruyne and salah for what we did hasnt weakened us considerably from what we could be? The loss on the field is actually under represented in the monies we received for them, and same for a lot of other players like Lukaku, Ake, these are losses to the potential strength of our current squad and its only right that the fees we received for them in compensation are taken in to account as measures of loss of quality just as the monies spent are used to represent measures of strengthening.
Similar Coutinho with pool, his loss and the fee received have to be taken in to account when measuring the amount liverpool have strengthened via spending as they lost a lot of creativity with him that they havent had since.
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Mak, I think we can agree that although VAR is not very popular it is very accurate in respect of the Offside decision. All three this weekend were spot on.
If a body harness would enable the decision making quicker I don’t know whether it would I would expect that the Football Authorities would have examined all the technologies available before going with what we’ve got and we shouldn’t forget that this is not a PL situation it’s a World Wide FIFA system implemented everywhere now.
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Yes as well as buying the right players you can’t lose sight of the fact the two best Managers are at City and Liverpool.
Finding someone to match them at United isn’t easy they’ve already tried and failed with both LVG and Jose.
Maybe Rodgers could be the answer rather than the often touted Aleggri’s and Pochetino’s. There also needs to be a DOF take football decisions at Board level rather than Woodward imo the problem is seemingly Woodward doesn’t want to give it up.
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