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Pep and Jurgen all the way ๐ Just give us 2-3 Prem Titles – that’ll keep us going for a bit haha ๐
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Problem is, if youโre a manager at a club like Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal, those clubs have had a very high wage bill and have had for a long time. So the expectation is pretty much going to be immediate, whether fair or not because this is the strategy that such clubs have now – wage bill is the ultimate dictator of success, not the manager. Hence Mourinho was quickly under pressure with his poor start this season, Sarri has been under pressure, and even Emery – although this is his first season – it could be argued that he should have got more out of the side than he has been – particularly recently. People will say that the likes of these clubs have spent their money badly on some players. But this is creating a vicious circle – big clubs feel like they need to spend big on players to achieve success as part of their strategy mentioned above, so they do so giving them lucrative contracts but this in turn puts the pressure on the manager *not* the player. So it is the boards of the clubs that are creating the very conditions that are arguably hampering their success. The only logical outcome out of all this is that surely this strategy of prioritising wage bill over the manager now has to change. But rationality has never seemed to register high on a boardโs strategy.
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Mikus,I’m not sure that’s where the expectations come from Chelsea have been the most succesful PL Club of the last 10 years and United’s success goes even further back than that. That’s where the expectations come from imo but nothing lasts forever.
The average salaries table attached though shows that Chelsea’s average annual salaries are not significantly different to Liverpool’s and Arsenal’s are marginally less.
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In Liverpool’s defence, re 2017/18. Liverpool had only lost 5 matches all season and finished 4th.
The opening fixture of that season with the 3-3 draw at Vicarage Road summed up where the gaps if you like to what otherwise was progression.
Realistic expectations for us was 4th and to win Silverware. I don’t think we expected us to challenge Manchester City the way we did this season. Again, from my point of view, the emphasis was to try and nail either one of those domestic trophies and then push on.
I distinctively remember from last season with 5 or so games in, Man City, Chelsea, and Man United were almost if not, neck-n-neck with one another. These were all tipped to win the League.
Chelsea actually finished 2017/18 on 70 points, 5 behind Liverpool and out of the Top 4.
Perception now comes from previous high standards set to pick on how this season there’s an overall underperformance.
TV I must say spoil these Teams with ‘Super Sunday’. There was nothing Super about today as far as the United-Chelsea game was concerned.
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Nine, yes theyโre big clubs and yes thereโs an expectation but it is that thatโs causing these boards to act irrationally and continually make big money buys. Chelsea have been fortunate to find top top managers over the last decades to deliver success and they now look to be running out of them. Man Utd have obviously lost Ferguson. Donโt doubt the wage bills are similar at these clubs, but Liverpool clearly targeted the manager first, wage bill later, and this has obviously built up more over recent years. Arsenal have been spending bigger money in recent seasons but have still been underachieving. Which points to a problem with strategy. And itโs deeper than just getting the manager right. (You said recently Chelseaโs problems lie deeper than Sarri).
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Mikus, getting the Manager right though is still crucial imo.
Longevity is also important it’s no accident that the three best performing Clubs in the PL currently have Managers with the longest longevity.
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I’m wondering now on reflection of this campaign how we didn’t manage to find 3 points at Old Trafford?!
The same goes for Everton with the ilk of Bernard and Richarlison!
Though the back-to-back meetings didn’t help, this reflects on maybe our fault in not able to Manage the pressure when trying to hold on to Top Spot.
Recent trends show, we’re better when we’ve been behind Man City. All these recent wins too in succession, I can’t believe it.
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Nil, Super Sunday is merely a branding term by Sky it doesn’t mean thy games will be Super.?
Today’s United v Chelsea game wasn’t that bad imo and it was certainly better than the 0-0 game between United and Liverpool back in February also billed as Super Sunday when Liverpool failed to get a win or score a goal against what was that day very much a scratch United team a result that might well yet cost Liverpool the title.
Super Sunday today included:
Leicester v Arsenal
Burnley v City
United v ChelseaTwo of those games effected qualification for the top 4 and one potentially effected the outcome of the title. Not a bad line up to justify Super Sunday. But it’s all about opinions.?
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Nine, ok mate ๐
It wasn’t a some sort of a declaration to sum up the last 27 years. Ford Super Sunday as what used to be back then, had just one 4pm game, which in itself I believe was taken from the concept of ‘The Big Match’, ITV (I must be showing my age, by the way lol).
My point was merely based on today. I didn’t really get a chance to see the other games as I would have liked to have done.
There is much more of a variety these days which I think is good, but for somebody who’s seen this a fair bit, a lot of the time it’s de-ja-vu and disappointment.
I totally agree with your point of the United-Pool game. Maybe that should have been played on a Friday Night or a Saturday game for BT Sport.
My point was to try and shake off the predictable days and times, and just mix it up with different sets off fixtures.
Due to the TV deals agreed before-hand, you are all but guaranteed this type of fixture will land as a TV game, never a 3pm Saturday.
4pm games that involved Big Teams generally were good to entertaining billing. Now it’s just like watching testimonials. They play too as if they’re really tired and in slow motion. People are bound to be a little impatient with that type of display.
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The United v Chelsea game wasn’t perfection but that’s not surprising given where both teams are currently but I thought it was reasonably entertaining.
I didn’t watch the Leicester v Arsenal game but I did watch the Burnley v City game and would describe it similarly.
But as always it’s all about opinions mate.
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But how could Chelsea give a manager time and longevity unless that manager instantly proves himself? Thatโs basically the point Iโm making. Suppose, hypothetically, Klopp had walked into the Chelsea job at the start of this season straight from Dortmund and had no PL experience. Would he have been an instant success at Chelsea? Not sure he would have been. And heโs clearly learned a lot about the PL during his time here. Would he have been given the time he was given at Liverpoolโs to develop Chelsea? Would be have been allowed to freeze out some Chelsea players if he didnโt like them?
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Mikus imo Klopp was a stand out candidate for any of the top PL Clubs as was Guardiola and Liverpool are lucky to have him but I’ve heard Liverpool fans question him when results and Finals haven’t gone the way they wanted.
Conte walked into Chelsea with no experience of the PL though and won the title in his first season but he unfortunately talked himself out of the job as he did at Juve too.
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The Big Match I remember it well Nil. ?
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What about the events at the Leeds v Villa game folks extraordinary.
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There was a bigger expectation for Conte at Juve than there was for Klopp at Dortmund. Conte was used to working to deliver quick success and did so in his first season at Juve. Ditto Chelsea. If Chelsea are to start installing managers like Sarri then they need to somewhat adapt to them rather than Sarri adapting to Chelsea. But would Chelsea ever want to risk doing that? Ditto Man Utd with Solskjaer.
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Mikus, wouldn’t disagree with that mate personally though for various reasons I’m not sure Sarri is the right appointment for Chelsea but he probably deserves next season.
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Nine, had a look at that that mate having a very soft spot for Leeds.
It basically stemmed from a bad challenge from one of the Leeds players on a Villa player in which the game continued. From then in, it appeared as though a Leeds player intended to break up play by kicking the ball out, but it came across as though he put through one of his own players that led to the Opener.
The Leeds Manager with all hell breaking loose basically instructed his own players to ‘let Villa’ score. The game finished with a 1-1 draw.
I’m gutted for Leeds as this ended this hopes of an auto promotion. This means that they’ll have to sweat it out in the play-offs with Villa themselves involved. I really hope we see the Lillywhites back in the Top Flight.
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Haha, Nine, remember that as a kid. The late Brian Moore being the commentator.
2:30 Every Sunday on ITV ๐ No Sky needed ๐
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As far as the subject of longevity goes, I raised this point earlier this evening. Of course, the is measure by the signs of progress out of vision, but it ultimately boils down to the backing of the Owners/Board and Supporters. Adding to that, the players too in whether they buy into and support what the Manager has to offer.
If a club happens to change their Manager every other season or an example if the Manager has 3 seasons, the tendency is for somebody new to come along with an entire different concept of Backroom staff, footballing philosophy and what type of players fit with in that.
It’s change that impacts results and levels of consistency. 1-3 seasons I believe simply is not long enough for a complete transformation in fortunes on the pitch against Club vision and expectations.
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TBA I actually thought we were more than lucky in our last encounter with you & I think you have a very good team. I see spurs like we were a season or 2 ago, good 1st 11 but struggle with depth over a full season. As city have shown over recent seasons, depth is key over a full season. We are getting there & as a result are becoming more competitive but city had a massive head start, I mean when you get an injury to KDB and have the luxury of bringing on Fernandinho as a replacement you know your in a pretty good way.
I do think with a bit of investment you could be right up there challenging us for 2nd next season as you have a good foundation to build so hopefully for your lot you spend a bit. You’ve dome amazingly well to be in the semis of the C/L, I actually hope if we get through you don’t as I see you are a bigger problem for us in the final. If we don’t go through I genuinely hope you win it._____________________________
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