Week 3: Because I'm bored…

[nine nine nine]

Chucky, I think Spurs probably need the transfer window closed and both players staying, whether that’s what happens is anybody’s guess.

Eriksen starting that game could have made the difference but I’m not sure his head is right currently.

Spurs had no creativity yesterday against a 9 man Newcastle wall and they needed Eriksen or Lo Celso to help solve that problem and Poch waited too long to try and solve it imo.

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[Adlab]

INCIDENT: David Silva had his foot trodden on by Bournemouth’s Jefferson Lerma inside the area, with the Manchester City midfielder going to the floor. The incident went to VAR, but nothing was given.

DERMOT SAYS: Incorrect decision.

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[Adlab]

VAR got it wrong as Manchester City missed out on a penalty at the Vitality Stadium.

Looking at the television replays of Jefferson Lerma’s challenge on David Silva, he clearly trod on the City midfielder’s foot.

Referee Andre Marriner’s original decision was no foul. VAR checked for a spot-kick but decided not to award one. Even worse, they did not recommend a review to Marriner either and that worries me.

At the very least, Marriner should have been told to go to look at the incident on his pitch-side monitor. He should have been told, ‘Look Andre, we think you may have missed this one’, and given him the option to make the final call.

I’m concerned about the line of intervention. Maybe the PGMOL have set the bar too high. We have not seen one Premier League referee sent to look at his monitor. Why not? That is what it is for, so use it.

VAR also took centre stage in Chelsea’s 3-2 win over Norwich. In the sixth minute, the hosts equalised through Todd Cantwell, but the visitors felt there had been a foul on Tammy Abraham in the build-up.

VAR checked the goal and decided it was not part of the same attacking phase. I agree. It was too far back.

In the 80th minute, Kurt Zouma thought he had scored. Norwich goalkeeper Tim Krul had spilled the ball under pressure from Olivier Giroud and Zouma tapped it in.

Martin Atkinson thought the goal was good but VAR ruled it out. They saw Krul collect the ball with both hands before being challenged by Giroud. That was right, too.

By Mark Clattenburg

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[nine nine nine]

Adlab, it was a penalty that’s obvious from the slo mos but that’s the problem in real time Mariner didn’t think it was a penalty and VAR won’t intervene without its a clear and obvious error by the Referee and in normal live action it wasn’t a clear and obvious error by Mariner which is seemingly why they let it go.

Additionally the Referees are being encouraged not to go to the pitch side monitors for fear of disrupting the game too much. Thankfully the decision had no impact on the result.

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[Nike19]

Ed, been asking myself the very question.

That’s a potential goalscoring opportunity and Ederson just bulldozed himself in.

Very lucky to stay on the pitch in my view.

People go on about Silva, but where was VAR on this???

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[Nike19]

Ed, been asking myself the very question.

That’s a potential goalscoring opportunity and Ederson just bulldozed himself in.

Very lucky to stay on the pitch in my view.

People go on about Silva, but where was VAR on this???

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[Luckydestiny]

Nine, I was watching the ref after the lascelles “accident” and I noticed that instead of waving his arms to signal not giving the pen(ie waving the pen away) he just started running upfield with play as he seemingly awaited VAR verdict. The problem with this is like you said VAR will only rule if the refs decision was clearly and obviously wrong, but in this incident I got the feeling the ref was passing the buck and while not calling a penalty is in effect calling no penalty, it didnt seem that he actually made a decision and was in fact passing the buck. If this was what happened and happens more often then the criteria of VAR needs to change and if it looks a pen to VAR it needs to be given whether ref calls it or not.

Bottom line the refs need to make their verdict clear before it goes to VAR, too often it seems to go to VAR and I dont even know what the ref has called.

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[nine nine nine]

Lucky, spot on mate VAR won’t get involved without there is a clear and obvious error by the Referee which is always a matter of opinion and it’s only the opinion of Stockley Park that counts.

In SLO mo the foul on Silva was a penalty but in the normal time that the Referee saw it in Stockley Perk seemingly considered it wasn’t a penalty.

There’s also a reluctance to let Referees review decisions on the pitch side monitor because of the time it takes.

Lots of teething problems and from a Chelsea viewpoint we were badly served with the penalty that should have been given for the knee high kick on Azpi.

Also I think there’s probably a reluctance by Stockley Park to re Referee games and undermine the Referees.

I still think a bigger problem than VAR is this stupid handball rule which we’ll be stuck with for this season at least.

The below article from the BBC is quite informative imo.

“How does VAR work?
VAR only gets involved when officials have made a ‘clear and obvious error’ in one of four key areas; goals, penalties, red cards and mistaken identity.

By only getting involved in four types of decisions, it’s hoped that VAR won’t disrupt the flow of the game.

Goals
A close offside decision is the most common reason for VAR being used after a goal has been scored, but things like shirt-pulling and other fouls could also see goals disallowed after a VAR review.

Under current rules, there is no margin for error for strikers trying to stay in-line with defenders. If a player is offside by a centimetre or even less, the goal will be ruled out, which is exactly what happened when Manchester City scored a third goal against West Ham on the opening weekend.

Penalties
Penalties can be given or taken away using VAR, but only if there has been a ‘clear and obvious error’ in the original decision.

It can also be used to award retakes if a goalkeeper leaves his or her goal-line. Which is what happened to Scotland in the Women’s World Cup.

Straight red cards
In-game straight red cards for violent conduct and dangerous tackles can be given or reversed using VAR.

However, second yellow cards cannot be given with VAR help.

Mistaken identity
If the referee sends-off or books the wrong player, VAR can correct that decision.

How does this work in the game?
The Video Assistant Referees can talk to the on-field referee through an earpiece. If something needs to be looked at the referee will put his hand up to stop play and inform the players that a decision is being reviewed.

VAR reviews the video footage of the incident and advises whether or not action needs to be taken. If there has been an error, the referee will draw a rectangle with their arms – like a big TV screen in the air – to show they’re changing their original decision.

At times when decisions are not obvious, the VAR will instruct the referee to watch a replay on a pitch-side screen. This is known as an on-pitch review.

Referees have been told to avoid checking the pitch-side screen whenever possible. These types of review are known to cause long delays.

Where are the video referees?
The video refs are nowhere near the action!

VAR HQ, as it’s known, is at Stockley Park in south west London.

Every Premier League manager was invited to visit the HQ during the summer to see how the system works for themselves.”

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[Chucky McChuckface]

That’s exactly how it looked LD, peno or not (and I think it was, the Castile defender had lost his balance and was making every effort possible to tackle Sir Harry!), the man in the middle bottled it completely and waved play-on while waiting for the “natural stop in play” for it to be reviewed. VAR couldn’t “overrule” the original, “clear and obvious error” or not, because the tosser in the middle didn’t make a decision in the first place!

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[nine nine nine]

Lucky, on the Spurs penalty that wasn’t given it looked like a penalty to me but MOTD 2 suggested half of those watching the game live in the studio thought it was a penalty and half didn’t and I suspect that’s what happened at Stockley Park. Do not a clear and obvious error on that basis.

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[Luckydestiny]

Nine, Shearer (the newcastle pundit) didnt think it was a pen, but I am not sure who the rest of the people in that 50/50 split are who are on his side. To me a defender impeded the attacker in the box and did not play the ball, whether accidental or not it is a pen. I am struggling to understand how clear and obvious something needs to be, its all over the place right now.

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[nine nine nine]

Couldn’t disagree with any of that Lucky. But there has to be a reason VAR didn’t intervene and that seems the most likely rationale.

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[Luckydestiny]

Of course nine, the reasonable deduction is that VAR did not think it was clear and obvious, but given what the replays show, how could they not see it as clear and obvious? That is the real concern here mate. Yes I can believe it was accidental but that is irrelevant, most penalties that defenders concede are accidental, its not as if they want to foul a player in their own box, but when they impede attackers so clearly I can not understand how any referee would not give the penalty after reviewing the footage.

Coming to think of it, are any of you aware of a time a ref has not given a pen but was over ruled by VAR who then gave the penalty?

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[Mikus LFC]

And therein lies the problem. On one hand the system wants to protect the referees integrity, and on the other, it wants to reverse poor decisions. I hear what Nine says about taking time for the ref to look at the pitch side monitor, but isn’t that the better solution here if want to fulfil the above criteria with regard to protecting refs whilst also reversing bad calls?

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[Adlab]

What is facinating about the VAR discussion including comments by those who should know eg Clattenburg, is that it is creating precisely the controversy it is supposed to limit or remove,
(Gives us something to natter about).

I do think in time it will be sorted but as suggested in an earlier post I dont think it was sufficiently trialed, but you cant turn the clock back.

What I do think wrong is using a EPL referee as the VAR. That is where a lack of objectivity may creep in.

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[nine nine nine]

Lucky, 100% agree mate. Same could be said about the Azpilucueta penalty claim that the pundits all agreed was a 100% penalty.

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[nine nine nine]

We’ve all got used to Refs making mistakes it’s frustrating but we reluctantly show some understanding of that on the basis of human error unfortunately despite all the technology they have at Stockley Park it still comes down to human error bar offsides.?

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[nine nine nine]

“According to Tony Cascarino, the saga over the 27-year-old’s future is a huge distraction and is partly to blame for Spurs’ stuttering start to the campaign.

“Their new stadium is incredible but the players are not deserving of such a stage at the moment” Cascarino wrote in his Times column.

“They look disjointed and lacking in ideas on the pitch. Players such as Lucas Moura only seem to perform when they come off the bench, Davinson Sánchez looked all over the place in defence and the situation with Christian Eriksen must be troubling for the squad.

“If Mauricio Pochettino thinks he’s really going to lose his star player, then keep him away from the squad.

“Having him on the bench sends the wrong message to his starting XI that they’re not good enough. I know he came off the bench to change the game against Aston Villa on the opening weekend but until his future is sorted Eriksen shouldn’t be around on match days, no matter how good he is.

“There is so much that doesn’t seem right at Spurs at the moment and Pochettino needs to get his group united for the north London derby this weekend.” Talksport

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[Brian blue]

Really begs the question….what has changed? technology (of a kind) in place yet we have to rely on somebody interpreting what THEY see, which could be right/wrong nevertheless it is a weakness

The next question …Are we better off or do we wait 10 years as suggested by the powers that be for it to come right?

I still see more issues arising than issues solved I do not have an answer but at this rate…just take the Ref out of the game!!!!!!

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[nine nine nine]

Good to hear Bury look like being Ok hope it works out the same for Bolton.

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