Week 28: Bloody international break!!

[Editor]

This from Marca has Utd 3rd. Have a hard time believing we’ve jumped up to 1st having offloaded Pogba, Ronaldo, Lingard, Mata, Matic, Cavani etc

https://www.marca.com/en/football/premier-league/2022/03/06/622504ab22601d94458b458e.html

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[Luckydestiny]

Yeah Ed, they change transfer window to transfer window, what is consistent though is that for last decade relative to opposition utd have always been 1st or 2nd and well above the average and in great position to compete.

Be interesting to see what chelsea’s is once the summer is done. Bringing in all the new players before offloading others has created the highest wage bill in probably prem league history.

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[Chucky McChuckface]

All this goes to show is despite my Spuds having the 4th/5th best wage bill, or how well Pool did spreading the Wee Phillipee money over 6 seasons, or how overpaid the Jammy Dodger squad is, or the ridiculous level of mercenary’s employed at Innocent City.. we all still don’t like YooUtd!! 🙂

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[Luckydestiny]

Wow Ed have wage bills dropped across the board that much in a few years?

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[Luckydestiny]

Those marca wages are 50% higher across the board than all the other lists I am finding so they are likely either wrong our account for more than just first team wages. The highest seems around 200m mark everywhere but marca have it at 350m it’s way off.

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[Editor]

Wage bills vs performance are a great indicator of a whole club’s ability to make right decisions as they can use a single metric (wage bill vs league position/points) over a longer period. They’re less effective at determining a coach’s ability. You can’t, for instance, suggest Ten Hag is underperforming by having Utd 3rd with (depending on source) the highest wage bill. That may make appealing headlines, but the reality is he took over the 6th best side in the league who also lost a whole midfield in the summer. I think the only time you can use wage bill vs performance ratio to judge a manager is when that manager has been where he is a long time and the whole squad is theirs. Similarly for Conte, I think it’s a flawed metric to use when the manager hasn’t been there long enough to take either the credit or the blame for that particular ratio over time.

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[Editor]

Yeah Ed, they change transfer window to transfer window, what is consistent though is that for last decade relative to opposition utd have always been 1st or 2nd and well above the average and in great position to compete.

Definitely Lucky. In fairness, Utd have finished 2nd twice in the last 5 seasons. Granted, we’ve been nowhere near challenging but let’s not pretend we’ve been like Arsenal who finished 8th 2 years in a row. No Utd fan would argue Utd haven’t underachieved as a club in total. I think managers have often taken an unfair amount of slack as the faults have often come from a lack of vision at board level and too much short term thinking.

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[steveosnakeeye]

I think we got a bit off topic lads … can we bring back to how shit the spuds are? 😁

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[Editor]

Lucky, here are those same Marca figures again from last year https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-big-six-wages-salary-26397254

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[Mikus LFC]

I do think another problem is the obsession with the lucrative top 4. I suspect in the Poch era that was the main target vs winning cups. Now you might argue it would have been hard to do both given Spurs situation at the time with the new stadium costs, but at some point a club has to win something if it wants to put itself on the map and build something for the longer term. As I say, there have been managers who have walked into big teams with mediocre players and won something or got to finals in their first seasons. And it’s then allowed them the time to build.

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[Luckydestiny]

Yeah just same likely same source don’t know why there such a discrepancy

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[Luckydestiny]

Ed you are right it’s more a judge of how the club overall has performed relative to budget and quality of the manager is a significant but small part of that.

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[Luckydestiny]

But that being said, if Conte has failed with spurs, ten hag needs to win league with utd next season or come damn close otherwise we are not being fair and reasonable in how we talk about expectations. Chelsea should too. In fact unless pool, utd and chelsea start achieving what we should none of us should criticise spurs under conte without acknowledging that our teams have underperformed to a greater degree.

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[Chucky McChuckface]

Just when I thought my deflective skills were working, along comes Buffy in his Amazing Technicolor Pants to remind everyone…

#HOWABOUTHTEMWREXHAMSTHEN??

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[Luckydestiny]

Yeah banjo, let’s talk about Wrexham….bet the only ones that come close to their wage budget in vanarrama is Notts County 😆

Glory hunter 🤣

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[Chucky McChuckface]

Yes, that’s right Nepolean, every else sucks too!

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[Chucky McChuckface]

Got to try and win something somewhere… 🙂

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[Editor]

But that being said, if Conte has failed with spurs, ten hag needs to win league with utd next season or come damn close otherwise we are not being fair and reasonable in how we talk about expectations.

I really don’t think it’s as simple as that Lucky. I don’t think anyone is saying Conte failed simply because he isn’t higher in the league. Conte failed because he:

1. Failed to improve the club’s playing style
2. Hasn’t improved Spurs’ position
3. Has come nowhere near winning any trophies
4. Has alienated the squad, evidenced by his recent rant

There are a multitude of reasons people are saying he’s failed. Had Conte got Spurs to where they are in the league playing lovely football and having a few cup runs and kept his mouth shut, I don’t think anyone would say he has failed vs expectations. Spurs could easily finish exactly where their resources suggest they should.

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[Editor]

Because, if anything, Potter should be winning the quadruple next season if we’re going to talk about resources vs expectations. No manager in history has seen his club spend what Potter has in such a short space of time.

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[Luckydestiny]

1. Failed to improve the club’s playing style

Subjective and redundant relative to results, ie only relevant if team could be more competitive playing a different way and neither of us can assert anything here.

2. Hasn’t improved Spurs’ position

Wrong, he took them back to champs league and as I argue top 4 is spurs ceiling I don’t think any manager will have failed if they don’t better that.

3. Has come nowhere near winning any trophies

True but hadn’t been there long and again against better equipped opponents.

4. Has alienated the squad, evidenced by his recent rant

His recent rant was his last and irrelevant. They were still chasing 4th until he flipped his lid and could still finish in top 4.

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[Author]

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