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Micky, quick google gave me the below list, only (cough) 465million (Eruos I believe) on players in 2 and a bit years… sorry cyber chum, but calls to “continue” to back him when it’s obvious to everyman and his dog he’s only taking the team backwards, are only going to make you look like Mr. Mad, Mad Street, Madchester’s next door neighbor… 🙂
Like I said, got no dog in the race, but bloody hell, how much does the supposed “Greatest Manager in the Last Twenty Years” need?
Paul Pogba 105,00 Mill.
Romelu Lukaku 84,70 Mill.
Fred 59,00 Mill.
Nemanja Matic 44,70 Mill.
Henrikh Mkhitaryan 42,00 Mill.
Eric Bailly 38,00 Mill.
Victor Lindelöf 35,00 Mill.
Alexis Sánchez 34,00 Mill.
Diogo Dalot 22,00 Mill.
Lee Grant 1,70 Mill._____________________________
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Mourinho is in a big hole and he often hasn’t helped himself and I’m not sure he’s capable of getting out of it now.
The United job was massive though and monies have been wrongly invested. But you can’t question Mourinho’s ability as a Manager to deliver trophies even at United with all its problems something that neither Pochettino or Klopp have been able to do across 4 years and 3 years plus respectively albeit they have had considerably lesser funds to invest than Mourinho.
Where United go from here is difficult to guess but I wouldn’t write them off of getting a win v Arsenal.
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I don’t actually disagree Banjo, I’m simply saying if you have him as manager he’s going to cost you a fortune because you need to keep bringing players in to keep harmony in the team to stop anything lingering or getting out of hand. Even after he won the league with Chelsea in his second stint, things went south very quickly when they didn’t freshen things up the summer after. Had Man Utd backed him more this summer, it still may not have been enough.
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Jose time in the P, is simply over! A much younger manager needs to be appointed.
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Mikus, I don’t agree with this line of thinking. I mean, I’m not saying that rotating players in/out of the club doesnt work but more that he is the cause of these problems in the first place. My guess is that Jose can better cover up his horrible personality for short spells. the successes help cover up the nasty side to him. over time though and during tough periods, he can’t hide it. Just look at how he carries on with the press during these times. He’s either calling the refs into question, or publicly bashing his own players. This of course is if he isn’t too busy starting fights with other managers. You can only imagine how intolerable he is when he hasn’t got a camera in his face.
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Again Mak, I wouldn’t disagree with much of that. I think the situation with Jose can be summarised thus:
He is a very effective and tactically astute manager who, when he finds a good chemistry with players can be extremely successful. However, eventually he starts rubbing people up the wrong way and hence the squad needs to be freshened up regularly to stop anything lingering and getting out of hand. What has exacerbated things in more recent years has been that some players as I say are now untouchable, and will thus win any battle that Jose picks with them. Hence Pogba looks to be winning the battle with Jose because the club have invested more in the former. So inevitably there is irreconcilable discord between the players and Jose and the manager will always be the fall guy in such situations.
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All good points. I do think we’re making assumptions though in terms of his spending. Utd have spent terribly for a long time, so it wouldn’t be all that surprising to learn that Mourinho has had little say on who comes in. I’m not saying that’s the case. I’m just saying we don’t know.
As for the coaching argument, players still have to be of a certain quality and often possess a certain attitude to be able to bring the best out of them. I mean Pep is generally regarded as the best coach in the game at the moment but why couldn’t he coach Bravo to be a good enough keeper for them? Why hasn’t he made Mendy be a solid defender, which you’d expect at nearly 50mil? Why has Nolito disappeared without trace? Why didn’t Iheanacho realise his potential at City? See my point?
I also find the “imagine if [insert overachieving manager’s name] had the money [underachieving manager] has had” completely pointless. The irony, in particular related to Mourinho is that he is where he is because he massively over achieved at the likes of Porto. Managers like Poch, Howe and the like haven’t come close to achieving what Jose did in his days at Porto and Inter. Look at Klopp. He was an overachieving manager last season. People were saying “imagine if he could spend what Mourinho could.” He then spends money on 3 of the most expensive players ever in their positions and most agree Liverpool are not as effective as last season, particularly in Europe. Look t Ranieri. He did the unthinkable, gets some money to spend the year after and gets the sack then struggles for a job. People wrongly assume an overachieving manager will always overachieve and there is so little evidence that is the case.
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P.S I think Jose will go regardless but I don’t think the constant criticism of him is fair. One man in the game can hold his CV up against Jose and criticise him and that’s Pep. Even then, Jose has the advantage of having taking 2 very unfncied sides to the biggest title in club football, twice. The rest will retire at varying degrees below his achievements.
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Eddy, don’t think anybody is saying Maureen wasn’t a great manager, taking Porto and winning the CL fifteen years ago and Milan eight years ago were wonderful achievements, but how long can he dine out on those achievements? The clocks ticks for everyone, but dining out on past achievements isn’t going to last forever, and I reckon a big bowl of Instant Whip is on the cards (Butterscotch flavor)
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Ed…I don’t think anyone is arguing with his CV. It’s his more recent history that is getting him all this criticism.
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Chucky, not saying he can live off those achievements forever. I’m merely making a point about the irony in saying “imagine if x manager had that money” when they would have that money if they could come close to doing what Jose did with the clubs he did. Poch, for instance, has a much better side than that Inter or Porto side. It would be like Poch winning the CL twice. Instead, ironically the closest he’s come to a title is behind a manager who spent even less at Leicester!
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Yeah he’s definitely not been good enough at Utd HH. But that’s one job. Even then he won 2 trophies in his first season before it turned sour. He’s won trophies at every single club he’s managed.
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Eddy, if we’re playing by those rules, and history isn’t all that “important”, I’m going to suggest Brain Clough is a far better manager then, as Maureen has won promotion, won the title, won the European Cup in three successive seasons… 🙂
My point, agreeable or not, is managers like Poncho and Co, over the last couple of years, have outperformed Maureen considerably, on a much lesser budget. Comparing Poncho2017 vs Maureen2004 is a bit like comparing Mike Tyson and Mohammed Ali… we’ll never know…
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Good shout in your first para! Was I supposed to disagree? ?
You say “outperformed considerably”. What are you measuring that on? Personally, I’d argue Spurs have a better side than Utd at the moment and if my calculations are correct, Jose has 2 more trophies than Poch in the time they’ve both managed their sides. You’ve finished above us once. Us above you once.
On who has the strongest side, how many of our players would you swap for yours? Assuming you think Jose has done a worse job than Poch with the players each manager has available, I’d presume you think we’ve got better players. Genuinely intrigued as to how many of our lot you think would get in your team. If like me, you think DDG is the only dead cert, then you have to ask who has actually done the better job IMO in terms of utilising the players available.
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Ed – wouldn’t say it turned sour last season, we came 2nd to a team labelled best ever in the PL. This season we have been very poor, but can’t see why that is the only period being used to judge him. Well I can, tbh. Rather it seems very silly to solely judge him on this season, as some are.
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Eddy, but now you’re comparing apples to oranges!! 🙂
If Poncho had that squad to start with (the YooUtd lads) and 400 million quid to spend, I very much doubt he’d be 16 points behind the leaders after 14 games…
If Maureen had last years Spud squad and signed NO players what so ever, I very much doubt he would have led them to their best ever start to a Prem season…
Oh, I’d have Doughnut Theif, possibly Shaw (our LB’s really are shite at the moment!)… would like one of your CM’s but I can’t stand Pogba, Matic from last year (I think his legs have gone this year!), maybe Martil…
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Mikus 3rd December 2018 at 3:53 pm
Right, I see now and ya I agree with all of that.
Ed “Utd have spent terribly for a long time, so it wouldn’t be all that surprising to learn that Mourinho has had little say on who comes in. ”
We can’t say for sure, as you say… but I would be really shocked if anyone could arrive at Utd without him at least signing off on it. He’s been around long enough to know all about the potential pitfalls involved. I think it’s safe to assume that the rules in place are not too dissimilar to the ones at all the clubs he’s won titles with.
“I also find the “imagine if [insert overachieving manager’s name] had the money [underachieving manager] has had” completely pointless. ”
Rafa Benitez is an overachieving manager? It’s quite the opposite. He could and would be challenging or winning trophies at a top club but is instead keeping a rubbish team in the PL. He’s doing all this with a penny pinching owner. Honestly, newcastle have no right to be in the PL if it wasn’t for him. overachieving sheesh. That is a little bitterness there now.
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Makaveli, I think you’re mixing up the word overachieving with overrated. If he’s overachieving, that’s a good thing ?
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Chucky, so at a push you’d have 4 of our players, with one of those being doughnut thief over drink n drive ?. So, really Poch should be doing a better job than Mourinho considering the players he has!
Yet there he is, with 2 less trophies to his name.I actually think Jose might have done better with that Spurs side. Best striker in world football and probably the best defence in the league. That’s a defence Jose would love. Poch has not once shown he had the ability to win trophies. Jose has shown he has the ability to win trophies with a lower budget than his competitors. I know which one I’d back. Besides, Poch is well documented to have said he doesn’t care about the cups. With that attitude, he wouldn’t last long at Utd!
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Yeah Alfie I meant more that his whole tenure appears to be turning sour rather than last season.
I don’t really understand it either. His record is, at worst, the second best in the game. He won the league in his last job with far from a vintage Chelsea side and before that broke records galore at Real against probably the best club side the world has seen.
People agree this is the worst Utd squad for a long long time so I’m not sure what everyone expects. We’ve spent tons of money but all that says is that we have bought poorly. Our squad is still miles behind the top sides, as evidenced by the fact few of our competitors would swap many of our players with theirs. I honestly challenge anyone who thinks differently to tell me you’d take more than Chucky’s 4!
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