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Ironically, Money City are the only ones who come out of this with any “respect”, having refused to cave into either players demands… who would have thought that!!
Wow Chucky, this is potentially a world exclusive. I’ve never seen anywhere that City refused to cave in to Messi or Ronaldo’s demands. On the contrary, City offered to triple Messi’s salary 😆
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Both Messi and Ronaldo are legends of the game but you’ll find it’s Divock Origi that’s generally regarded as the greatest of all time.
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If you’re talking about pure ability and not trophies, then I place Pele, Maradona, Zidane, Ronaldo Nazario and Ronaldinho above both of them. They were absolutely all joys to watch and did stuff I hadn’t seen before. Messi and Ronny are refiners of the afortmentioned players IMO, nothing original about what they do.
No one can argue with Messi and R7’s success they will likely never be bettered
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Yeah I don’t disagree Foxy with that principle. I just think that’s a different debate. If we were talking about the most talented/gifted footballer ever, the likes of Ronaldinho & Co were just mesmerising. The Brazilian Ronaldo, for all his talent, never won the Champions League, though. I don’t know how we can talk about the “Greatest of all time” without talking trophies and what they did with all their talent.
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on that debate, Messi never won the WC! In fact, he’s only just this year won his first ever International tournament!
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My point is, everyone always gets caught up in the hype of the now. It’s like when you run a popular poll of greatest singles or music artists they tend to get flooded with candidates from the now in favour of true time-honoured classics. When people really get time to reflect objectively, I don’t believe either will feature in most people’s top 3-4 players of all time.
Would love to have seen Pele and especially Maradona with today’s protectionism rules. Maradona would get assaulted every time he got the ball and do his darnedest to stay on his feet. For me, he was the best. Had the touch of Zidane, the playful entertainment value of Dinho, the silky running with the ball of Messi and the heart and determination of a lion._____________________________
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Oh absolutely Foxy. It’s a well known phenomenon and is known as recency bias.
” Recency bias is a cognitive bias that favors recent events over historic ones. A memory bias, recency bias gives “greater importance to the most recent event”, such as the final lawyer’s closing argument a jury hears before being dismissed to deliberate”
There’s always a risk of being blinded by that bias. I just think with these two that it’s not the case (that we overestimate them because of the “now” effect). I actually don’t think we’ll come to truly appreciate them until they’ve gone. Also when players have the longevity that the likes of these two (Zlatan another one) it’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking of them as they are today rather than how amazing they were at their absolute peak. Ronaldo, for instance, we think of this clinical, deadly number nine. He was anything but that earlier in his career and was such a talented winger who terrified defenders.
There will never be universal agreement about who the GOAT is but these two will always be part of any such discussion.
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Foxy, Original Ronaldo was INSANE. His injuries really ruined his career but he’s scored the best goals I’ve ever seen. He had pace, technique, power all at 11.
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“I don’t know how we can talk about the “Greatest of all time” without talking trophies and what they did with all their talent. ”
This and so many other things are going to be why we’ll never all agree on it. Personally I don’t think trophies are super important but most people do, hence Messi winning the Ballon Dor this year.
I’m not massively passionate on the topic either but I just don’t like Messi. There’s definitely bias there from me for sure but him not wanting to or being too afraid to play in the PL is a HUGE mark against him. I don’t think this is something to apply across the board but today, the PL is the most competitive in the world, I don’t care what anyone says. He was on the move, so I’m not calling out someone who won’t leave a club they were happy at… but he chose PSG for the money.
I don’t buy this “he went to PSG to win the CL”, cause they never have. There are several PL sides who have a better chance at winning the CL than PSG, you all know who Im talking about, whether people agree or not. PSG have always given us a game for sure, they are a very good CL side but why not come to the PL and also have a chance at showing the world that you’re capable of winning both?
Its just my opinion but this rules him out in my mind. He’s not in any list as a result of this. It would have been great to see him here and see if he can do it at a club that isn’t entirely based around giving him the ball but we’ll never know now.
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Ronaldo Nazario was completely unplayable. The injuries he incurred were both devastating for him and the footballing world, robbed everyone of his best years. The debate of the best is definitely between he and Maradona for me.
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I don’t think it’s fair to judge the G.O.A.T. based on team trophies/achievements if I’m honest…
Maybe I’m wrong (does happen! 🙂 ), but wasn’t RonnyII injured for the Euro Final anyway that he ‘won’? You could argue he didn’t even win that… Niether RoonyII or Messi have won the World Cup… Pele, never played in any of the Euro leagues (‘good’ or ‘bad’ ones)… Bestie never played in any major international comps at all… and as much as you Pommies like to suggest the Spanish league is inferior to the Prem, I seem to recall quite a few spankings from La Liga teams giving to Prem teams over the years in the CL… and a quick Google tells me Messi has scored 27 goals in 35 games against the so-called superior “Prem” teams in the CL, so how many do we think he might score against the non-CL teams week in, week out?
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Wow Chucky, this is potentially a world exclusive. I’ve never seen anywhere that City refused to cave in to Messi or Ronaldo’s demands. On the contrary, City offered to triple Messi’s salary 😆
You do know that was back in 2018 when he still had legs?? And it also sounds like the Chairman is pulling a Levy (or even Wenger!) there…. “Ohhh, we were so close to siging yada, yada, yada!”… but other than that… 🙂 🙂
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I’m well aware that was a few years back Chucky but let’s just say it gives me reason to doubt this “City refused to meet Messi and Ronaldo’s demands so let’s respect them” slant you seem to want to push. Not seen any suggestions of that anywhere and I know you’re someone who doesn’t believe paper stories usually anyway 😉 so I’m struggling to see how you believe that about City.
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For me and from what I seen Maradonna despite all his demons was the best, the way he used to weave past opponents as if they didnt exist was some kind of magic, plus he could score goals made it also look so easy.
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Fair enough, Sweddy, just humbly pointing out an article from 2018 might not be that relevant to claims I may have dared to suggest occured in 2021… 🙂
Anyway, as both RonnyII and Messi have always dreamed of playing for Spuds, their both going to finish their respective careers feeling slightly hollow… 🙂 🙂 🙂
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I’m not even saying it didn’t happen Chucky re Ronaldo and Messi at City. Just saying that it’s the first I’ve ever heard of it, that City refused to pay them what they wanted and that we should all give them a round of applause. Let’s all congratulate City for not spending EVEN MORE than every team in history 😄.
As you say, before long we’ll surely see them both fulfilling their dreams of playing for Spurs!
The whole GOAT debate is always interesting but also always pointless as we all judge it differently. Club vs International trophies. Trophies or not Trophies. Longevity a factor? The fact is there isn’t a player in history who ticks all the boxes. You can pick a hole in any GOAT argument.
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One thing that absolutely can’t be denied is that both Ronaldo and Messi belong in the discussion. They’re by far the 2 best of modern times and easily in the discussion for the best ever, along with Origi (as Threeps suggested 😄).
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That’s about the brunt of it, Sweddy, both are up there in the Origi level of world class players (can’t believe nobody has mentioned Tony “The Legend” Hibbert!), and certainly the 2 best players over the last 15 years or so.
A more interesting debate would be who’s third on that list? (Or 5th after Origi and Hibbert, obviously!)
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Another point, we’ve established recency bias no doubt plays a part in favouring Messi and Ronaldo (or recent players in general) but I think there’s also a risk of being blinded by nostalgia regarding players from bygone eras. Take Maradona, for instance. I, myself, am not old enough to remember much of him playing. I caught the tail end of his career but he was on the decline by then.
So, all I have to go on is vague memories and old clips. Neither those memories or old clips tend to remember the bad games, the bad touches, the missed sitters. They remember the absolute best things those players ever did. The modern day GOAT contenders such as Messi and Ronaldo don’t have that luxury. Every miss, bad game, stinker they have is all over twitter seconds after and etched on our short term memory. When I look up clips of Pele, it will be clips of his best goals. Not the games he struggled to make an impact in.
As for Brazilian Ronaldo, he did have his career cut short and there are often reasons to not take trophies into account (strength of the other players in that team etc) but you look at that Galacticos Real Madrid side he played in and have to wonder. Does he have any excuse whatsoever to not have won the CL during his club career? He played with the best of the best there. A phenomenal side. Could the same be said of Cristiano’s Portugal or Messi’s Argentina? Did either of those consist of the same level of player Ronaldo’s (R9) Real did? I’m not so sure. Ronaldo (R9) was definitely one of the most gifted players to have played the game, as was Ronaldinho, but the greatest? I don’t think there’s much of a case there.
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“a quick Google tells me Messi has scored 27 goals in 35 games against the so-called superior “Prem” teams in the CL, so how many do we think he might score against the non-CL teams week in, week out? ”
we’ll never know because he didnt have the stones to come to the PL. As for some La Liga teams doing whatever, ya, almost exclusively the top 2 who were bleeding the entire league dry for decades (TV money situation). AM a minor exception but even then, I bet the PL has a strong advantage over them. That besides though because 3 clubs don’t represent a league. If you want to look at the financial power of the clubs in the league, you have a pretty solid metric for quality. An assurance? of course not but the general trend is that richer performs better.
La Liga = fish in a barrel and it’s all because of their exploitative TV deals of years past. They have since decided that a more competitive structure is beneficial, because they are well aware that nobody is interested in watching a non-competitive league.
Real and Barca can be as good as they were and still people around the world were more drawn to the Pl. That speaks volumes.
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