The difficulty of winning the Champions League

[cm]

Crazy to think that Jose has not won the CL in 8 years, Pep in 7 years and Klopp has reached the final twice without winning it, the same number of times Pep and Jose have reached the final. The 3 are probably the most prestigious managers in world football today in terms of what they have brought to the game the last 2 decades. If someone told me in 2011 that Jose and Pep will struggle to win the CL again this decade, I would have laughed at them.

Ferguson struggled to win the competition with the exception of 99 and 2008, Wenger struggled to win it, Jose at Chelsea and Real Madrid, where he was expected to win it, failed to do so, Pep post Barcelona has not done well in the competition, people expected him to carry on the success in Europe after they won the treble in 2013.

The last 7 winners have been Roberto Di Matteo, Ancelotti, Heynckes, Luis Enrique and Zidane. Only 1 of the managers in that list are a house hold name when it comes to managers.

I know Zidane won it 3 times, but why is this competition difficult to win consistently for some of todays great managers.

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[srd79]

All cup competitions are diffucult to win time and time again. Luck plays such a big part. It’s one bad result and then you’re out.

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[cm]

That is true. They do say winning the league is a marathon and winning a cup competition is a sprint. With the squad depth nowadays, you expect some of the top managers to do better in the CL.

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[Mikus LFC]

I think you need several ingredients to win the CL. I think you need a settled dressing room with leaders that’s also had time to develop a togetherness. I also think you need to be pretty tactically astute to win the CL. The thing about Klopp is that he is a manager who just tends to go for it and to some extent throw caution to the wind. That will only get you so far (though we also lack leaders). As for Pep not winning for a while, I think he does suffer from a bit of that tactical naivety at times and also whilst City have got many outstanding players, do they have such leaders in the mould that Real Madrid do with players like Ramos?? Not a popular man in Liverpool but he’s a huge reason for Madrid’s success in recent seasons.

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[srd79]

I always knew Guardiola was a bit rubbish! 😀

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[nine nine nine]

Much more difficult to win the CL now than it was when it was the European Cup when only Champions competed and Club’s like Monchengladbach, Malmö and Bruge were getting to the Finals.

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[Mikus LFC]

If that’s so Nine, why have Madrid been able to win it 4 times in the last 5 years??

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[nine nine nine]

Exactly my point Mikus and how many times were Real in the competition as Spanish Champions? Real have only won La Liga once in the last 6 seasons so in the old European Cup couldn’t have even been competing let alone winning the comoetition the standard of teams in the CL is much higher than it ever was in the European Cup due to how many top quality teams are in it.

Two very different competitions now.

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[srd79]

The number of games is also a factor. When Malmö reached the 1979 final they played Monaco, Dynamo Kiev, Wisla Krakow and Austria Wien before the final (I just googled it). Compare that to 2018. A world of difference.

That Real Madrid have won it three seasons running is amazing. But I think they’ve gone all in on the CL and neglected the domestic league and had a bit of luck as well.

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[Mikus LFC]

So if the standard of teams is much higher in the CL than it ever was in the European Cup, why have Real Madrid still been able to win it 4 times in 5 years?? And bear in mind teams still dominated in the 70s and 80s, Bayern won it 3 times on the trot. Liverpool won it 2 times on the trot.

My point would be that the ingredients needed to dominate the competition don’t change – i.e. A team full of togetherness, leaders and quality.

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[nine nine nine]

Mikus, just go back and look at the line up of the teams that qualified for the European Cup as it was and compare it to the list of those that now qualify for the CL it’s much stronger now.

Also in the European Cup you could win it in 7 games now you have to play 13 games to win it. All round it’s a much more difficult trophy to win.

However the hard part was winning the title in the first place.?

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[Mikus LFC]

So in different ways it was just as difficult a competition as it’s always been, because though there were fewer games back then, you had to win the title to even get into it? So I think we agree with each other then. The point about quality is not particularly relevant to me because it’s all relative if all the teams we’re of lower quality back then, then it was still a difficult competition to win for each team.

For me the real question of this thread is “Why have the English teams not dominated the CL the way the Spanish teams have?” I point to some possible reasons in my post at 10.16 am.

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[nine nine nine]

True Mikus but once qualified it’s now a more difficult trophy to win for instance Spurs would haven’t played in it since 1961 under the previous rules but are a very dangerous opponent in it both previously and currently under the new CL qualification rules.

Liverpool’s last European Cup win in 1981 saw them come up against Real in the Final but now all of Real, Barca and Atletico are in the CL plus Sevilla so broader and much stronger opponents.

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[maverick1973]

I love Malmo,I hate fucking Ramos! I love Banjo….

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[Hightown hope]

It was bloody difficult to qualify for the old format European Cup, but you’re right, that was the really difficult part over with once you’d qualified. One other point, 999, to pick you up on…1981 v Real Madrid wasn’t our last European Cup win. 1984 winning in against Roma on their home ground was our last triumph in the old format – now that was tough – playing a team in the final on their home ground!!

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[nine nine nine]

Hightown, apologies but it doesn’t diminish the point I was making. Very true how difficult it was to win the Final on the opponents own ground Chelsea did the same in 2012. 🙂

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[cm]

I dont think you can compare the old European Cup to the champions league now. They are just 2 different competitions. It is easier to qualify for the CL than the European Cup. I will maintain that winning the CL has always been difficult to do. Real Madrid won it 4 out of the last 5 times, but they had some tough competition along the way. They played Dortmund and Spurs in the group stages, then had PSG, Bayern, Juventus and Liverpool in the knockout stages last season.

I remember Uniteds run in 99, they played Bayern and Barcelona in the group stages, then played Juventus, Inter and Bayern in the knockout stages. Coming up against the likes of Rivaldo, Del Piero, Zidane, Ronaldo, Figo, Matthaus and many others.

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[Mikus LFC]

As I say, the real question here is why haven’t the English sides won the CL as much as the Spanish teams in recent decades? And I think it speaks volumes that regardless of the quality Barca and Real Madrid have, there has still been a Spanish foundation and fight to those teams regarding the likes of Ramos, Casillas, Puyol, Xavi, and Iniesta. These players have been real leaders to their teams, galvanised their dressing rooms and so greatly assisted their managers. I think the English teams have lacked such players. Only Terry and Gerrard spring to mind. Indeed look how vital Gerrard was to Liverpool’s win in 2005!

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[nine nine nine]

I think that’s an issue Mikus plus La Liga is an easier League and they help their teams out by letting them move their League games to a Friday etc.

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