Reality check

[cm]

Maguire is 25 years old. Woodward refused to pay big on players much older. So Maguire would have made sense to him at that price considering his age. Yet he didn’t go through with it. A bit of a contradiction by the press reporting imo.

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[maverick1973]

Much rather have Chilwell,Maddison,and Gray myself.I would have accepted Maguire had it meant selling Jones,Rojo,and Smalling.

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[sean the sailor]

Maguire is as average as they come. Utd dodged a bullet. there is a good bit of this debate that I disagree with cm but he does make some bskid points and has hit me thinking

He’s right about the board needing to support Jose. They give him a new contract so they have to back him. It’s not up to Woodward to say such and such a player isn’t good enough or worth the money

If Jose wanted Maguire badly then spend the money. Utd certainly have it

Also there’s no need to do dismissive of cms opinion about Sanchez. No one knows the real money he’s on

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[nine nine nine]

I don’t think Woodward decided by himself not to buy Maguire I suspect the Glazers would have approved such a big decision either way.

The big question now is where it goes from here if Woodward and the Owners aren’t going to back Mourinho on football decisions then it doesn’t hang together and United need to go in a different direction.

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[cm]

Cheers Sean

Agree about Maguire. I have a belief that United were not serious about getting him. He was just a back up option, then were put off by the ridiculous price. The rest was embellish by the press to make out they were genuinely in for him. Things do not add up, Woodward tells the press he vetoed the deals because they were short term, Maguire is not a short term option. In my opinion, Jose wanted Alderweireld and Willian, with Woodward not wanting to spend big on both. Thats where the fall out is.

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[nine nine nine]

Let’s face it none of us really know what’s happening with transfers inc fees paid and wages offered other than what we ascertain from the media and the internet.

Jose wanted to add to his squad this Summer despite the previous investments a number of which have been unsatisfactory and he is unhappy with the outcome we know that because he told us so.

Football decisions in the main should be left to football people imo, Woodward presumably with the agreement of the owners seemingly refused to secure the targets who Jose had identified deeming them either too expensive or too old as they would have no resale value and this is where the waters get muddied Woodward has a duty of care to Manchester United as CEO and has to protect them from unwise investments in terms of players age, valuation and wages seemingly that’s what he’s done.

It leaves Jose without his targeted players and unhappy the squad questioning Jose’s authority and the players playing in the positions that Jose was looking to replace uneasy which can effect their form.

All of it is very reminiscent of the problems that existed between Conte and Chelsea last season and we know how that ended whether this ends the same way is open to conjecture but there will have to be some very big turn arounds if things are going to sort themselves out from here with Jose carrying on as Manager.

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[Anonymous]

maguire is the epitome of an average footballer. i understand not signing players without resale value due to age. but maguire doesn’t have resale value based on ability. would’ve been a terrible transfer. they could still have got 4-5 good years out of toby and for me he is the best defender in the league. no resale value but he would improve the team and the other players as well.

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[cm]

I never understood the resale value logic. Majority of the time most clubs get very little for their players when they hit past 30 and most clubs expect and hope to have their players with them during their peak years. Manchester United paid 17m for Valencia 9 years ago, they will get peanuts for him now. Just like they did with a past his best Rooney. If you pay big on someone during their peak years and he improves your side instantly for 3+ years. Then it is money well spent. Especially when you consider how the market is today.

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[Anonymous]

spot on cm!

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[nine nine nine]

Totally agree with your post @ 9:21am Paxton and it was my bad phraseology in my post above in rolling resale values into one re both signing older players or over priced players in the case of Maguire at the suggested circa £80m would have probably lost United £30/40m the day after United signed him.

Like you though even with no resale value I would have signed Alderwiereld who would have significantly strengthened United defendively imo.

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[Mick Far]

So with the benefit of 6 months of hindsight, would my request for a reality check against Mourinho, Man Utd and the spine of the future team be responded to in the way it was by established site members back in April? Re read your responses!
Justification given as league position, Cup Semifinal, Europa and League Cup triumphs and before another £82 mill was spent making Mourinho £340 mill net spend compared to Guadiola’s £399 net and Klopp’s £141?
How would you phrase your responses 6 months on! What has really changed?

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[Brian blue]

Guys, playing with numbers diguises the simplicity of player not being good enough for the task. Re sale is a convenience for accounting not reality. My guess is 95% at least players bought will be sold for considerably less, the reality of that fact is you should factor in a large depreciation figure, which I believe they do but you cannot have it both ways by having a resale asset on your books, one or the other
Numbers have never convinced me, just like historic facts. The only thing that is important is the next game, not what happened yesterday or what MAY happen in the future. Enjoy the game and dont get wrapped up in figures. A good statistican will make you believe anything you want…much like politicians although I would remove the word “good”

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[Mick Far]

Ok Brian drop the “numbers” bit of this reality check…
What about the other points raised and rubbished in April?!

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[Anonymous]

I’ll bite.

This is your opening post:

The final episode of the, at longest, 3 yearly Maureen cycle. He sells off promising youth (Martial, Rashford only 2 at Man U!) Then his narcissism boils over in an attempt to get something in “history” to say he won. He sells the players he’s only just bought & the “player of the season” for god knows how many years, the goalie!! Sell him!
And buys every expensive player who’s ever won something including Neymar at £350 mill… That will push Lingard into £250 k a week bracket surely?! Tell me a single player he’s improved or even plays as well as when he bought them?
Then he leaves in a year and Man U are screwed and do a Leeds….
Man U make PSG and City look like sensibly run, proper football clubs.
I’m sure Maureen would have handed out his plastic flags by now, if he could trust the apathetic tourists/supporters to wave them and stay for more than 60 mins…

Lets disect that to see how accurate it is, shall we?
The final episode of the, at longest, 3 yearly Maureen cycle. He sells off promising youth (Martial, Rashford only 2 at Man U!) Then his narcissism boils over in an attempt to get something in “history” to say he won. He sells the players he’s only just bought & the “player of the season” for god knows how many years, the goalie!! Sell him! I’d rate that as highly inaccurate. Would you agree?

And buys every expensive player who’s ever won something including Neymar at £350 mill… That will push Lingard into £250 k a week bracket surely?! I’d rate that as highly inaccurate. Would you agree?

Tell me a single player he’s improved or even plays as well as when he bought them? he has improved: Young, Lingard and McTominay. Matic, Fred, Lukaku, Bailly all play just as well as when he brought them. Would you agree?

The rest is highly subjective and too early to judge, but highly unlikely to be accurate given yesterdays financial results of record turnover etc.

Good to see the site has moved on from being Mourinho and Man Utd obsessed!

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[Editor]

I said a while ago in this thread:

Mourinho’s ego and attitude will no doubt see the end of his Utd career sooner or later rather than his ability to manage which is, arguably, unmatched as his record shows.

And I completely still stand by that. It will absolutely end in tears, in my opinion but Mourinho will still go down as one of the best managers in history, particularly for his exploits while managing sides who had no right to win what they did. What he did for Inter and Porto is unmatched by anyone in the game today. In my opinion, he needs a break from the game and then to come back and prove himself again, which I have no doubt he will.

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[Anonymous]

Personally as a non United fan I hope Mourinho will continue to manage United for as long as possible. Ed Porto and Inter were 2 of the biggest clubs in Europe and still are.

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[Editor]

I’ve never understood how the “big club” bit comes into how difficult a challenge something is. In relation to the money he spent at both clubs, it was peanuts compared to the teams he was up against. To do it twice is unreal and won’t be matched in my lifetime

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[Big Jim]

Nice to see you back posting Alfie.

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[sean the sailor]

Alfie, good to see you on here.

I think lackau has done really well. He was bought to score goals and is doing exactly that.

Utd have some very good players. They look so disheveled at times yet on other occasions they look like a proper Jose team. He’s right about the effort some of the players are putting in. Some seem like they don’t care and only turn up when they won’t

Bailly is a very good player but I think he’s gone backwards. No idea why. Matic started well but had faded. I’d say felliani has improved under Jose aswell as the others you have mentioned

He should have been backed in the summer but Sanchez should have been signed to play wide right and left martial wide left who was playing well. He had 3 goals in 3 games.

Jose is a brilliant manager but all old traits are still there. Criticizing players to the media etc. I think if he’s sacked now then there really must be something in this third syndrome. Maddness to sack him in my opinion.

Still 3 cups to play for. Utd fans have been used to great football but some of it under Jose is absolutely dreadful.

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[Mick Far]

Alfie I’ll reply and for the record my original statement was inflammatory and worded to draw opinion and discuss behaviour traits of Mourinho and Man U, rather than 100 % accuracy of outcome! Surely you can see that?

Lets disect that to see how accurate it is, shall we?
The final episode of the,3 yearly Maureen cycle. He sells off promising youth (Martial, Rashford only 2 at Man U!) Then his narcissism boils over in an attempt to get something in “history” to say he won. He sells the players he’s only just bought & the “player of the season” for god knows how many years, the goalie!! Sell him! I’d rate that as highly inaccurate. Would you agree?

So his narcissism didn’t boil over a couple of weeks ago in his “respect” rant about his personal history?! So Martial and Rashford are both motivated first 11 players rather than Martial feeling slighted by the Sanchez deal and wanting out..Rashford’s development under Mourinho?
Highly inaccurate with Man U specs on..

And buys every expensive player who’s ever won something including Neymar at £350 mill… That will push Lingard into £250 k a week bracket surely?! I’d rate that as highly inaccurate. Would you agree?

So you don’t think he tried or would have bought the likes of Ronaldo, Neymar, Bale as an immediate fix if the club trusted his judgement and could see the marketing benefits? I would say highly unlikely with Utd specs on..
I

Your expansive list of players Mourinho has improved: Young, Lingard and McTominay. Matic, Fred, Lukaku, Bailly all play just as well as when he brought them. Would you agree?
Hahahaha Fred’s been there 10 seconds and has scored 1 goal. How you see Bailly as a better player than he was at Villarreal would require 2 pairs of Man U specs?? Really! Matic better than he was at Chelsea, Young better than he’s been over the previous 15 years??!

I think as a Man U fan your having your “respect” melt down, and even if we only discuss this 3 times in 6 months, that’s far too much focus on the wealthiest club on the planet and a manager who chooses to live on the back pages….

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