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Moos started it…. ?
What would be the criteria to the GOAT when it comes to managers? Is it simply trophies in the cabinet? Longevity? Winning different Leagues? Overcoming adversity? Unbeatable achievements?
Cases can be made for all these being superior than the others, logic would say a manager who may not be top of all these categories, but close to the top in many would be in with a shout?
What do we all think?
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Think there are many shouts for GOAT but I can’t include Pep in that. He has won leagues but He has always had to biggest resources in each country he’s managed in. He is meeting expectation, to go beyond that he either needs to dominate for longer or pick up a few European cups. Certainly getting to a league cup final whilst having unlimted funds does not warrant the title!
The greatest domestically is Fergie as he dominated for so long. If he added more European success then there would be no argument. Paisley dominated Europe so I can understand if someome suggested him. Greatest achievement was Clough winning with Forest. Shouts also for Shankly and Busby for leaving legacys.
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3p’s… you’ve just about mentioned everything I was thinking… and totally agree about Cloughie!! 2nd on the Achievement List has to be Ranieri and Liecester I reckon!
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Pep needs to win the cl with city
Great manager
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Pep is certainly one of the best of all time imo and he’s won League titles in three different countries and his teams play lovely football. But there are a number of contenders.
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Pep is certainly one of the best of all time imo and he’s won League titles in three different countries and his teams play lovely football. But there are a number of contenders.
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100% agree with Threeps, I do believe Pep is very tactically astute & is a very good manager. However as Threeps said he has had more funds at his disposal than his rivals in every role he has had.
Look I donβt think Klopp is at that level YET either but I love how he takes on clubs that are far from the best in their league & gradually builds them into top teams. Yes he has spent money but nowhere near what c$ty chel$kicor manu has.
Put it this way I donβt think Pep could go to a club in a state like Liverpool was & have them up there challenging for the league like Klopp has done without massively outspending everyone._____________________________
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As much as it pains me to say it Fergie would have to be right up there.
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Fergie is the GOAT if we stick to Engerland, no doubt, but his European record perhaps let’s him down of when expand to European GOAT…
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In the modern times,Ranieri winning it with the Foxes.
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“Seeeeet down, nobody talk! – we drink water and reeeelaax” π
The guy in very recent times has won me over. He takes no nonsense from the Brit Media, and one of the reasons why he’s grown on me a lot is that he treats each cup competition the respect it deserves.
Plus, he has no favourites and asserts his authority well in making players known their starting place isn’t guaranteed.
He’s got more out of certain individuals too like Raheem Sterling.
Good for the Prem and a great fit for Man City.
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I doubt we’ll ever see much better than Fergie in England. Bill Shankly started Liverpool’s dominance and Bob Paisley took it on from there and Clough did amazing things at both Derby and Forest.
Cruyff laid the foundations for Barcelona’s succss and Rinus Michels was responsible for total football and then there’s Arrigo Sacchi.
And despite how it will wrankle with some I suspect when the dust settles on Mourinho’s career his achievements will probably rank alongside the best.
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Can’t disagree with SAF, Cruyff, Paisley, Sacchi and perhaps Lobanovsky and managers like that. They changed the game. And in an era where you had to rely on national talent. It took a hell of lot more back then to become and stay succesful.
Guardiola isn’t special to me. That’s just how it is. I find his short passing tiki- taka boring. I like Klopp’s style of play better.
What PG did at Barcelona what great on paper. But he inherited a team with Messi, Iniesta, Puyol, Eto’o, Xavi etc. Come on, Luis Enrique failed at both Celta and Roma, took over at Barcelona and won it all. That should tell us something.PG made Bayern less exciting to watch than under Heynckes, IMO. They went from direct and goalseeking to shortpassing tiki-taka. And fell short in the CL. Oh.. and Fulham legend Felix Magath won the German league with Bayern as well. Magath actually also won with Wolfsburg. I’d like to see PG do that.
At City he has had to compete with post- SAF United, An Arsenal in free fall compared to what they used to be, Liverpool and Spurs who can’t compete with City financially. You could perhaps even put Chelsea in that last category. Mancini and Pellegrini also won with City and struggled afterwards at less financial strong clubs.
PG hasn’t won anything in Europe since 2011. Mourinho did as late as 2016.
Guardiola is a bit like The Emperor’s New Clothes to me. Take over someone like Inter, Porto and Leicester and win stuff. Or have Liverpool and Spurs challenge on much tighter budgets like JK and MP and he might deserve to be mentioned as a great.
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Nil-What on earth are you talking about?
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Ferguson and Mourinho had plenty of financial backing as well
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Maybe the remark off the other thread was a reference made to his own club, Man City. I think though, there’s a clear objective there for the club to win the CL.
Not really sure about the comparisons made against other Managers and whether they are a fair measure because some have served more time than others, plus factoring in different eras – thus with the level of increased competition, Major Honours are a lot harder to accomplish.
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Moos: Agreed. SAF and Mourinho had financial backing. But quite a lot of young players were brought through the youth ranks by SAF. He also won the Scottish league with Aberdeen and won a European trophy with them as well.
When Mourinho won the EL and CL with Porto and the CL with Inter he simply couldn’t buy as expensive as many other clubs. His financial advantage has been at Chelsea, Real and United.
Klopp deserves a mention too. He’s excellent at Liverpool. But to win back to back titles in Germany with a club that isn’t Bayern – and reaching a CL final as well – that is just extremely solid work. And on a tight budget compared to most too.Fact is Guardiola never did anything like that.
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Difficult to actually have a best GOAT due to the ever changing face of footy
Cloughie took Derby from mid table Div2 to Div1 champions in 5 seasons, he then took Forest from mid table Div 2 to 2 times European champions in 5 seasons, donβt think weβll ever see anyone do that again.
Ferguson, his ability to keep winning and remain in supreme control in my opinion will never happen again.
Those two for me are hard to separate.
Pep, although brilliant at getting the best out of his players has never managed a team that hasnβt won its domestic league a couple of times in the preceding few seasons. However I donβt believe either Cloughie or Ferguson would be able to manage the modern day player now they have the power they do…..Pagan
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I completely agree with that last bit Pagan. Cloughie and Ferguson’s hard line, all-controlling approach would just not work today IMO. The game is completely different.
Pep has done an amazing job at City in terms of taking an already exceptional side to the next level. Not easy by any stretch but he took over the best squad in the league by far and spent by far the most money so it’s not all that surprising that he’s done what he has.
Definitely agree that there are many different aspects to the title, whether it be individual achievements, longevity etc.
I’d still like to see what Pep could do without all the money. We’ve seen Mourinho do it twice. Could Pep? There’s every chance he could but, until he does, we’ll never know.
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Forgot about Cruyff. I’m not that knowledgeable on him but heard that not only was he responsible for revolutionising Barca’s play but pretty much set the foundations for the modern game style of play. Wasn’t a bad player either…
Read something today about Pep, I don’t know enough to comment but maybe some of you can, in that he has never bought a player that has gone on to be one of his main men. That all his star players were inherited, and that his transfer record isn’t actually that good.
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