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I say the above, assuming brendan Rodgers were not interested in returning or that FSG werent… In the hypothetical scenario where Klopp left, I’d be choosing between Rafa and Rodgers. Sounds mad but both managers got a raw deal for me. Both managers are of a higher standard than the vast majority of people realise. so ya, just clarifying this … Poch is of the reputation within the sport to walk in the door , talk to FSG and be presented shortly afterwards. he’s at this tier and Spurs have fired him, the muppets.
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Spurs hadn’t won an away game since January and currently sit 14th in the table, in the CL they lost 7-2 at home to Bayern and 3 nil away to Brighton inside sources also described the atmosphere at the training ground as toxic.
The run to the CL Final papered over the cracks and there was massive good fortune v both City and Ajax in that run to the Final too. Spurs might have been unfortunate to concede such an early penalty in the CL Final but Spurs didn’t turn up that night and Poch should have played Moura who scored a hat trick to get them there rather than an obviously not match fit Harry Kane.
I don’t think Levy should escape the blame of not sorting out the contract rebels one way or another or in not backing Poch in the transfer market but the way Poch handled himself in the last few months and his overall demure suggested he didn’t want to be at Spurs and was looking for a way out. Given all of the above something had to give and football is a results based business even Pep would be under pressure if he didn’t deliver results.
I’m sure Poch will bounce back but his star is not as high in the sky as it once was and Clubs will think a bit more deeply now about appointing him especially the bigger Clubs and at the end of the day he’s still won nothing as a Manager and perhaps he should have with that Spurs team.
Be interesting to see where he pops up next could even be Arsenal.?
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Jose Mourinho had a unique way of challenging Dele Alli over his dip in form.
โI asked him if he was Dele or Deleโs brother,โ said the new Tottenham boss. โHe told me he was Dele. โOkay,โ I said. โPlay like Deleโ.โ ?
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The CL run did paper over the cracks but who’s cracks? Pochs? Levy’s? I say Levy. Point to me to a team who has fluked a CL final appearance and I’ll show you 10 who didn’t.
Spurs started in a bit a group of death, against Barca, Inter and PSV. Their last group game was one where they couldn’t afford to lose. They went down a goal and then equalized. How many English sides have gone behind in Barcelona and come home with anything? I’m not even looking it up but it won’t be many. Without that equalizer, Spurs go out. There’s no paper to be found here, just quality and character.
With this they won a trip to, Bundesliga leaders at the time, Dortmund. They then went up against the team who in my opinion were the best team in the world at the time (any arguments lads?) Man city, who they beat over 2 legs. That victory handed them a tie against an Ajax side who you yourself, Nine, recently described as being the best side Chelsea have faced so far (and you’ve played us twice so far). Let’s make note of the insane show of character that their comeback required. I don;’t know about you but I’m seeing a pattern here.
The pattern I;m seeing is touched on above. Spurs stretched hard and they achieved an incredible level but the closer you get to a missed goal, the more left down you will; be. In a team sport, after a season where the club have refused to invest a penny… Is it so hard to understand that the big stars might want out and that those big stars wanting out would unsettle the rest?
Maybe I’m just some mad clueless Irish bastard, or maybe Poch walks into a job that’s bigger than Spurs?
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“Iโm sure Poch will bounce back but his star is not as high in the sky as it once ”
I tried to edit this into the above post but I definitely do not agree with this statement. Altohugh I think you make a valid point about him maybe not showing that he wanted to be there (although a kinda iffy statement.. I mean what does a manager do or say that shows this besides start winning?)..
I think he probably was thinking of leaving though, like many of the star players. It was time for changes but was the manager the right person to be changed? Not in my opinion. I think he’s a convenient fall-guy for levy and those players who wanted out should have been sold. Are they really not good enough to command any serious interest? … Levy, like Woodward is incompetent. He’s not on the same level and there may be other factors involved as Spurs don’t have the finances that utd have but you don’t cut off your nose to spite your face and then wonder why your glasses fall off.
That part will happen when Jose does or doesn’t get the backing that Poch should have said. That’s right, I just said that Poch is currently better than Jose.
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Be very interesting to see what job Poch gets next.
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Mak, the game v Barca was a dead rubber for Barca and the current Barca team is not the best Barca team we’ve seen.
“How many English sides have gone behind in Barcelona and come home with anything?” Chelsea twice in the CL Semi Final and with 10 men. ๐
No away wins since January including a 3 nil loss v Brighton and the size of the defeat at home v Bayern have been part of a very bad Spurs run which currently sees them sitting 14th in the PL.
I don’t think Poch wanted to be there any longer and that accounted for some of his strange utterings and strange demure and neither do I think Levy is blameless in all this as I’ve said several times.
As I said it will be interesting to see where Poch pops up next.
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How many Jose teams have gone up in flames now Nine? I think this is Poch’s first major effort.
Poch will go to Bayern, or Utd, or some team bigger than Spurs. If i had money I’d bet it. Tell you what, I’m willing to put the pretend pint I win off Sean today in the Sugar Daddy Cup (sorry, it’s that damn chucky).
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Mak, can’t argue with that mate but from what I’ve heard from the Spurs fans they will accept it going t’s up in 2/3 years time if a trophy or two comes along. And I wouldn’t bet against that happening.
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Mak, I am a Chelsea fan who loved Jose but I wanted him out at the end and I am glad he was sacked. He does have a destructive nature when things dont go his way and no one who as watched him over last 5 years can deny that. However, no one can deny that he is an exceptional coach, he is truly a special coach in fact.
In my opinion Pochettino does not deserve to mentioned in the same category as Jose. Jose cries after winning finals, not semi finals, and has a proven record in 4 European leagues as the most serial of serial winners. Poch has won nothing, there is a reason so many non spurs fans wished spurs hadnt sacked him, he was never that intimidating or effective , and the stats PROVE it.
Spurs in prem under Pochettino:P-202-W-113-D-43-L-46-POINTS-382
Spurs in prem before poch (prev 202 games):P-202-W-106-D-47-L-48-POINTS-365Now I am sorry, but isnt the narrative supposed to be that Poch elevated Spurs a level or two above where they were and that he developed their best squad in prem league history? Well I agree with the second part, he did have the best spurs squad I have seen in recent times, but to only achieve 17 points more over 202 games with this squad is not an achievement worth bragging about imo and is a record that does not justify him being compared with the likes of Jose Mourinho. It does however provide some justification as to why Levy wanted to make a change. Another justification would be Pochettino’s ridiculous contempt and lack of respect for domestic trophies that the fans and Levy would struggle to understand, Jose wouldnt understand it either, and spurs would be a good bet for the FA cup this year I reckon, whens the last time they won it? Dont you think spurs deserve a manager who really wants to win it for them?
I hope Jose fails, but have no doubt that Spurs today have a much better manager than they did at the start of the week.
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Interesting analysis on BT Sport ahead of the West Ham game of Spurs v Sheff Utd which showed how far Spurs had slipped back in pressing the ball etc. Love him or loathe him that’s the first thing Jose will put right.
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Just to follow on from that Lucky, for me, whilst Poch certainly made Spurs very organised and effective, they lacked personality on the pitch and that ability to play more of the cuff at times. Itโs like they were too machine like. Whilst Iโm sure the players all bought into it at first, I believe that part of the reason for Poch leaving was that the players were bemoaning the โsame old sessionsโ and saying the place was โlike a regimeโ. Now Poch might well fire back and argue if heโd had more investment in some areas, they would have got somewhere. But if you look at Klopp at Liverpool, he got to two finals in his first part season with a mediocre squad. He got them to 4th spot the following season, the CL final the season after that, and then a CL win the following season and to within 1 point of the league title. Why? Yes he had more investment, but another big part of it was because he transmitted that huge personality of his on the pitch to the players. I just never saw that with Poch. And whilst Mourinho may well get criticised over his childish behaviour, it canโt be denied that the man has personality which he transmits to the players on the pitch. This is the difference between such managers and itโs usually the difference between success and failure.
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Seeing the difference already Mikus. Many times today spurs have played more direct when the simple possession retaining passes were on. Yes they lost possession with some of the direct balls in to the forward line, but they look more dangerous than under Poch already.
I think Jose has had that Lampard chat with Dele in the shower btw… How hungry and motivated does he look today? Superb 45 from him.
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Jose,Lamps & Dele in the shower?
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Lol Mav, but it is understandable if that confused you. Just to explain, Lamps has talked about how just after Jose arrived at chelsea he gave him the most amazing pep talk when lamps was starkers in the shower, telling him he can be the greatest midfielder in the world, Lampard said it made him feel 10 foot tall and was a massive boost to his confidence. It looks to me he already has had a similar effect on Dele’s confidence.
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Oh Frank,oh yeah,you`re the best,the biggest.Oh Frank!
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Works on me Mav!
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“Mak, canโt argue with that mate but from what Iโve heard from the Spurs fans they will accept it going tโs up in 2/3 years time if a trophy or two comes along. And I wouldnโt bet against that happening.”
I think if there are a set of fans who deserve a bloody trophy it’s Spurs. I’ll deny that I ever said that but as a fan of a team who’s seen their side lose a CL final twice, it’s just absolutely horrible.
When Real beat us, I was furious and gutted at the same time. I felt robbed of it because of what that **** did to Salah, I won’t go into it here, you know how I feel about it and yes, I’m still bitter about it. The Spurs fans have that early penalty as their main point of frustration. I won’t go into that also, as I’m definitely not looking to provoke negativity, the opposite in fact.
Nine, I loved our back and forth this morning. I’m a little biased in 2 ways when it comes to this topic though. The first is what I’ve spoken of here and think it was amazing for Poch to make a CL final after getting no backing the summer, previous. Ya, he might have thrown away the league or just under-performed in order to do it but that come back win against Ajax… I still remember the Ajax players all just collapsing like inanimate objects, when that last goal went in.
The Cl that season ended in the semi’s in a way. Us versus Barca and Spurs V Ajax. of course the final was set to be rubbish.
Anyway, I’m way off topic here I guess but ya, I do hope Jose gets them a domestic cup or 2. Look, if he can get a CL win with them, as long as it isn’t over us then fair dues, they deserve it.
I want the above to be heavily redacted ๐
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“In my opinion Pochettino does not deserve to mentioned in the same category as Jose. Jose cries after winning finals, not semi finals, and has a proven record in 4 European leagues as the most serial of serial winners. Poch has won nothing”
There is no denying that Jose’s career has been so exceptional that Poch could never compare. For me though, the destructive nature that you speak of seems to have gained a shorter fuse upon each time he resets. Maybe I’m wrong though and Utd is just a toxic environment that even he could not focus and I’m not denying his talent when he’s really interested. Jose at his best is one of if not the greatest manager of all time. He is definitely in that very difficult discussion that i will avoid right now.
What I said above though is me talking about how I see both coaches in the here and now. We can agree to disagree here because it’s my opinion that Jose’s CL wins and titles mean very little in a current comparison and that his most recent “form” (in search of a better word for a coach) is 90% of the argument.
As for the crying after a semi final? Jose has never had a semi final like Spurs Versus Ajax, so you can’t say that he wouldn’t. I think it’s really unfair to judge Poch or anyone for bursting into tears, or showing strong emotions after such an incredible come-back. Spurs come-back win against Ajax is perhaps the greatest of all time. there are a few other’s in that also very difficult discussion, including Liverpool V Barca… As I said, we don’t have to agree but I hope that you at least see my perspective. I do think I see yours and it is interesting to hear the opinions of people who have had Jose as a manager. I think Chelsea fans especially have truly seen the best and the worst of him. I’m just unsure what Utd fans saw of him because they have other issues going on there that might derail anyone… that’s another story though.
“Now I am sorry, but isnt the narrative supposed to be that Poch elevated Spurs a level or two above where they were and that he developed their best squad in prem league history?”
These stats are very handy when it comes to backing up an opinion but let’s remember that the PL has (in my opinion and I think most?) become more competitive and much more difficult to win. What is Klopp’s record like in those amount of games? I’d bet they are nothing incredible, yet here we are, considered to be one of the best, if not the best around at the moment anyway. My point is that those stats do not necessarily say what you think they do.
“Another justification would be Pochettinoโs ridiculous contempt and lack of respect for domestic trophies that the fans and Levy would struggle to understand,”
It can be hard to understand this but Klopp is in the same boat. He’s never had the slightest regard for the domestic cups and I’m glad. He prioritized to give himself the best chance to win his target trophies and he got one one them, missing out on the other but still doing incredibly well in it. You have got to priortise sometimes, especially if you don’t have the squad to genuinely compete across all competitions. I don’t see this as a fault for Poch but maybe a sign that there are just too many games to be played in the modern game and managers have got to make tough choices.
“Dont you think spurs deserve a manager who really wants to win it for them?”
I absolutely do but we wouldn’t be having this discussion if that 1 final CL game went well for them. We’d be lauding praise on him for putting everything he had into the CL. What an achievement they so nearly made.. but they didn’t. Now, for your question… I do think in this reset that they should prioritize the domestic cups and I think that’s exactly what Jose will do. he will try to win anything and as I said in another thread, I hope they get something (as long as it isn’t over us).
LD, Nine, we don’t necessarily agree here at all. The thing to take away from it all is that I’m not comparing CV’s.. there is no comparison to be made. Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your points of view and the back and forth.
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