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I do not understand this debate. A vote was taken, a winner declared…contest over….What is there to debate? It is history now
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27-If you dont think/believe this man deserves Ballon D`Or…………
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9-Just read what the some of the greatest have said about him.
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“What is there to debate? ”
The greatest player in the world over the lasdt year or so. That’s definitely worthy of debate for me.
Nine, I’d separate terry from Rio and some others in terms of quality. I think before Van Dijk, Terry was the best PL CB. I do also think that time is over though. Maybe we have to wait 700 years of him playing at the exact same level that he is now before people will nod their heads and say “yes, he is playing to a higher standard than I’ve ever seen”.
Ed, If I’m lazy then you’re lazy. You used stats, I came back at your argument using the very same stats, that actually backed up my claim. The thing is though, I didnt start it off by calling your stance lazy. I definitely could have as the lads here will know, I’ve been in the wars with idiots on TT who use stats as the entire basis for a position. They are at best a handy side-man cause they can be used an manipulated into portraying a position that is not only incorrect but that is entirely in opposition to reality.
in this case, it’s definitely worth knowing how many goals Messi has scored again our best clubs, just as it is definitely worth knowing how many of them he managed to score in our home stadia.
i standby what I said and not just because the Pl is a more competitive, physical league. We all know Messi is able for a scrap, to at least fend one off. I say it mostly because overe here, in certain teams, He just wouldn’t be coddled as much. He wouldnt have an entire team built around him to such an incredible extent. Never has a team existed for one man as much as Barca with Messi, never. Never will such a team exist again either, in all likelihood.
I didnt start down the road of stats but instead in observation, which to me is much more valuable. I’ll never forget Messi’s lack of a performance against us when we smashed them 4-0. I guess I’ve got that ammunition in the chamber any time someone clown tells me he was the best player in the world last year. The fact of the matter is, there seem to be plenty of those clowns, as they out-voted the actual best player in the world.
Maybe I shouldn’t care what these infantile footballers think. I’ve almost never been interested in hearing what they have to say but only in what they do on the pitch, where they are definitely better than my own talents.
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Mak, we’re never going to agree. Just to stress, I haven’t once said you’re lazy, just that that particular argument is a lazy one. You think mine is too, fine by me. Honestly not fussed at all. You make some good points, of course.
I honestly don’t have any more to add to this debate as we’re just heading round in circles. Good points all round though
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Mak (without sounding like I’m going on too much about this now) I do think the fact Van Dijk got more first choice votes than Messi (69 vs 61) does say a lot because if you were to adopt such a first past the post system, what you’re actually doing is forcing people’s hands to vote on a clear winner. With a proportional vote like the one they have, you ending giving credit to secondary and tertiary choices – when such choices may have been made more on a whim because they had to come up with other choices. So the fact Van Dijk won on the number of first choices and pretty much equalled Messi’s points totals tell you a lot.
Also huge respect for the Sri Lankan vote who voted for Trent Alexander-Arnold as the best player in the world!
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Mak, I wasn’t comparing VVD and JT mate different team, different eras and almost impossible to compare. I was just pointing out that nobody should underestimate JT’s influence on Chelsea 15 major trophies including 5 PL titles tells you that.
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Nine I certainly do not underestimate what Terry achieved and how he contributed to it. Rightly so a Chelsea legend. But I rate what VvD has done since coming to Liverpool as the highest positive influence a defender has single-handedly impacted on a team in a short period of time. Terry was great for you lot, he also had similar level players around him. Before VvD Liverpool’s defence was their Achilles Heel, we were often mocked for it. Since VvD came and stamped his authority, with help from Herr Klopp and the team admittedly, it’s one of the best in the World. The transformation has been nothing short of sensational.
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I’ll put my two penneth into the debate.
Firstly on Messi winning, we have to understand that it’s a European award voted for by Europeans, of which we are only a small contingent. How many times do we say, “bet he wouldn’t be so good on a cold February night in Newcastle” or “wonder if he’ll be able to adapt to the premiership” whilst we appreciate a defender who’ll put full bodied tackles in, it’s probably not the thing in other countries as that would end in an early bath. VvD has the footballing qualities from European leagues with the steel required in our league that he has added in order to excel. Basically what I’m saying although he’s appreciated here, they’re not elsewhere.
As for JT, he was a proper English centre back who could play a bit. What he lacked in pace he made up for in positional nouse, but what made him the player he was, was his leadership and his contagious passion and effort. Was he as good a defender technically as VvD, probably not, was he a better leader than VvD is, then probably yes, but what they both have in common is their importance to their team….Pagan
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threeps, fair enough mate re VVD as I said on a number of occasions on this thread “Virgil Van Dyke has done more than anyone imo to turn Liverpool from top 4 challengers to CL winners and PL title contenders and he’s undoubtedly currently the world’s best Centre Back”.
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we get it! liverpoooooooool and ALL their players are the bestest of the bestest, top dogs, ney! top guns!
they should win everythihg and no one should compete or tackle or do anything that would stop this MOST WORTHY of clubs winning …you know because they are sooooo special!_____________________________
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“Dynamite”, “Stick” & “Throw” are springing to mind here… 🙂
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im going full “Mick” Dundee and fishing with Dynamite baby….seriously tho its needed 😉
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Steveo, you’re damn right. Liverpool is currently an incredibly special team and it;s full of world class players. I’m not and never have asked you to bow down, not have I ever wondered why a team has not rolled over against us. I think that I’ve been pretty easy on the face rubbing side of things. I know what it felt like when my own team were multiple levels below the best in the PL. I’ve got decades of experience.
I’m sorry if my opinion that we have the current best player in the world doesn’t match yours but let’s keep it above the schoolyard.
During the City game you stirred it up and I didn’t appreciate it, you later said you were happy that I let things go, well I’m not the one holding onto anything here.
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John Terry was a much better passer of the balm then people gave him credit. He was eight footed but could smash across field with his left 60 yards no bother
His lack of pace was more then made up by his anticipation and positional sense
World class defender
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JT was an octopus???….Pagan
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Mak, we can have some fun along way, what i said wasnt directed at any particular poster, or was it really bad against LFC as a club or any of the players, but as i said back when, the idd comment or group of them can come over as just being bad losers! its opinion after all but as a team we had some immnese players back in the day who never won the damn thing and same for many other clubs, its not new and will happen again, its the reaction of a some of your fans to keep posting the same thing over and over ad infinitum instead of just accepting and moving on …like its some kind of giant conspiracy! You think you have the best player, others thinnk maybe only 2nd best, either way its all rather moot, means nothing and is already well in the PAST!! doesnt mean you shouldnt give your opinion, just dont take everything i say as me being a total bastard to LFC or indeed your good self sir! it really isnt me ol mucker and i expect and take lots of stuff coming mine and Arsenals way! its all part of our little online community! if i stir things up its because im as human as others and call out things that annoy me..same as you do and when i get it wrong you and others will no doubt put me back in my place!
all i will say is, im finding harder than usual to hear the constant winging and moaning form a selct group of fans who hate thi team and that team and this ref and that ref and this manager and that manager and get upset when ONE of their MANY world class players doesnt win the beauty award! i know you had some 30 years of hurt especialy regards to united but frankly there are more clubs around than pool/united and city…the rest of us all want to win or play well or at the very very least be relevant! and my own team are none of these things, i misss the old days and want more…id bite your hand off for half of what your team have going in the last 18months, goals, trophies, records being samshed….embrace and enjoy every second, as you guys full well it doesnt last for ever and when it goes its painful! again this sint all directed at you so dont think everything is and once again your a top poster i enjoy reading and having banter with…tho when you ripped me after the city game it did sting a little 😉
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But Steveo – name names please! Which Liverpool fan on here gives off the feeling of entitlement or the paranoid conspiracy theories? I can think of one but I think we all accept him for what he is, and he means well. But Mak, Sean, Mikus, threeps, Oz and myself I reckon keep it pretty even. Yes we wanted VVD to win the Ballon d’Or and we took part in the debate on here. But if we didn’t, it would be a pretty quiet forum. Yes we all desperately want Liverpool to win the league but we all appreciate City’s excellence and are still wary of the possibility of them coming back from the 11 point deficit. In fact it was a certain City fan who was claiming a conspiracy against his club after the Liverpool game.
Anyway I think it’s a good mix we’ve got on here and we’ll all have disagreements sometimes.
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ok that what mostly be Mr Balance 😉 but with much of his hatred diatribe that comes out during certain games, mixed with threads like this that goes on for pages after the beaurty contest result has been done and a few other threads…its a slow build of little comments of entitlement, comments like its been 30 years and as such we deserve it etc…..again most of you do most of the time, not all of you all of the time and its the slow drip drip over time mixed with the larger inflamatory hatred comments etc that make regular reading of various topics give the impression of this….
we do all have disagreemnts and what not and we all call out things we dont like or “percieve to be wrong” (perceiev is key here as its down to individuals and lots of things)….so if i feel the need to say a very JOKEY comment that we all bow to pool players etc, its very tongue in cheek for the most part, but if individuals take umbrage then thats there right too and i get put back in my box! and i take that too!
its a brilliant mix of posters on here including ALL yes all of the pool lads, not one poster on here (for me) that i in anyway dislike or wouldnt want not posting or have a beer with (as ive said to Nil and many others)….in fact its because everyone is top lads that we can all sput nonsense or disagree (just as i do from time to time, rightly or wrongly) because its a safe environment to do so unlike over on TT as many have said recently
i shall continue as i am and hoep you can all take my comments with a pinch of salt like everyone else and have a good laugh
gor forbid myself and Nusiance Nancy manage to constantly rip each other, each others clubs, the fans and basically everything form where we live etc all with good humour
and should anyone take umbrage (like now) id expect a jolly good rodgering from all 😉
peace out lads and i do mean that!
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