Mane vs VVD vs Salah

[threeps]

“to be fair you only have to look at the stats provided for Messi in the LAST YEAR alone to see he deserved the prize”

This is the sort of comment that makes these arguments about who is best worthless, it totally discards many aspects of football and just focuses on scoring lots of goals presumably against mediocre opposition. It’s a weak and lazy argument.

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[Mikus LFC]

Steveo, La Liga is not the strongest league in the world in terms of defences. Not saying Messi always had it easy but just a bit of context needed I think. Contrast Van Dijk’s record in a strong and very physical league and the fact he went over 60 games without being dribbled past. Had that ever happened before?

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[Anonymous]

Exactly Mikus. Add that he’s only been booked 2 times since the start of last season too. The PL is a breeze for him. It’s impossible to have a team based around the performance of one defender but the opposite is definitely not the case. Barca have 10 players who’s job it is to help Messi.

I’d love to see messi come over here and produce those numbers.

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[maverick1973]

Buffy-The Ballon D`Or is for the last 12 months alone,and Messi shouldnt even be in the Top3,which based on what they done,should be:

1] S.Mane
2] VVD
3] Mo.Salah

I disagree with Liverpool fans completely re VVD,I strongly believe S.Mane should have won it.Just my opinion,and I know Messi has scored more goals,but Mane won the CL with Pool,beating Barca on their way,and Messi has score most goals in poxy La Liga,where even Fellaini would have scored loads.Mane has been sensational these past 12 mnths.

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[steveosnakeeye]

you lads keep banging on about spain being less defensive, i suggest you read back through THIS thread and see the link the Ed posted that completly debunks that

NO ONE is saying that VVD is not among the best defenders ever and likley the best around at the momnet…BUT as good as that is it STILL not up there with what Messi has achieed in the same year….i think VVD own reaction and statement after the result says more than yours!

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[Editor]

The “Messi couldn’t do that in the PL” argument is the laziest of lazy arguments. I posted earlier on this thread and here it is again. He has 24 goals in 30 games against the absolute best sides our league has to offer.

If his ratio looks like that against our best sides, it would be much better if he’s facing the Newcastle, Norwich, Evertons of the league every week.

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[steveosnakeeye]

why cant you just be happy as fans to think a CB has come second ONLY to messi while steering you to a CL victory last year and a PL one this year? its this kind of over reaction to so many things connected with liverpool and their players that smacks of poor sportsmanship and starts to get niggly….i think VVD is AMAZING, had he won it id have been happy because he is that good, just this year, not quite as good as messi…and certainly not to all those actual professionals that vote for the one and dont base opinion on blindly following one team …i may rename Liverpool “Amerkin” after George Dubbya Bush when he said “American”….after all nothing exists outside of America for most “Amerkins”…and yes that does have another meaning 😉

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[Editor]

Here’s that link again debunking the “easy La Liga” myth too. Just zero evidence to support the fact it’s easier to score there.

http://themoaningoffootball.blogspot.com/2015/05/its-easier-to-score-in-la-liga-than.html

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[maverick1973]

Swedy Edy & Buffy-BUT we are only talking about the last calendar year,and all 3 Pool players deserved it more than Messi.

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[maverick1973]

Mahrez in Top10,wtf? He is not Top10 in the PL [of the subs players],lol.

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[Editor]

Mav, those stats were only to debunk the myth that Messi couldn’t do what he does today in the PL.

As for your point that the Liberools players deserve it more than Messi, you’re entitled to that view of course. All of the names mentioned have a case IMO. I just happen to think Messi edges it based on his 2019.

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[steveosnakeeye]

im sure if we also looked at the record and goals scored for ALL british teams in the CL/EL against other spanish oppersition the results wouldnt favour the brits to the point of the Spanish legaue being a joke and easy to score against….

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[sean the sailor]

I agree with Ed about vvd.

Still a bit to go before he can be up there with the elite of the pl. he’s the best defender in the world for me at the minute but he needs to sustain this form

Mak, Rio was an exceptional player. He could defend and he could use the bell. Sry well. He was very fast, a great reader of the game and a proper ball playing centre back . Absolutely top quality

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[Mikus LFC]

Ed, that link admits that a lot of those La Liga players went to bigger teams in the premier league so that is not a like for like comparison. The article, written in 2015, then uses Leicester as an argument that it wasn’t just these players coming to big clubs – yet Leicester won the premier league the season after – which followed their spirited relegation battle. And Swansea, the other example, were one of the better sides at that point in the league whereas Rayo finished 15th in La Liga in 2012-13 regarding the Michu comparison. This context is not given in the article.

As for Suarez and Bale going the other way – they both had to contend with Messi and Ronaldo which both of those teams were pretty much built around and had huge influence over. Whereas before, they were both the main men in their respective teams.

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[Editor]

Mikus , I’m sure there are a number of holes in the article. It’s impossible really to exactly compare the ease of scoring in La Liga vs in the PL, but that’s kind of the point. The onus to prove their point is really on those saying it’s easier to score in one league rather than on those saying that’s a weak, unsubstantiated argument. I’ve yet to see any thing remotely backing up that theory.

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[Mikus LFC]

Ed, one of the few examples we can even attempt to look at in terms of comparison is Ronaldo at Man Utd and then Madrid. If you compare his last few seasons at Utd, and his first few at Madrid, I think there is a marked improvement.

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[nine nine nine]

Mav, this should appeal to you buddie.?

If we were all in a room packed with beautiful women and we had to select the most beautiful women in that room based on the Balon D’Or criteria which was “The winners of the FIFA Ballon d’Or were chosen by international journalists and the coaches and captains of the national teams under FIFA’s jurisdiction.[3] In a system based on positional voting, each voter was allotted three votes, worth five points, three points and one point, and the three finalists were ordered based on total number of points. Voters were provided with a shortlist of 23 players from which they could select the three players they deemed to have performed the best in the previous calendar year.”

We wouldn’t all select the same women based on the above as being the most beautiful women.

Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder mate.

I don’t get the need to try and denegrate Messi as a player or the lack of acceptance of the result and suggestions of corruption just because the player from your Club wasn’t voted the best player.

Virgil Van Dyke has done more than anyone imo to turn Liverpool from top 4 challengers to CL winners and PL title contenders and he’s undoubtedly currently the world’s best Centre Back and he would have made a worthy winner of the Balon D’Or because of that imo but he was up against a very special player and at least he himself had the good grace to acknowledge that.

Liverpool are currently CL winners, look nailed on for the title and who knows what else, Van Dijk was voted the 2nd best player in World football only beaten by Messi they had 4 players in the top 7 and Alisson was voted the best Goalkeeper.

It really doesn’t get much better than the above!

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[steveosnakeeye]

Mikus, thats a totally specious argument!

a very young and improving kid was better at a better club with more stars several years later when he had matured? and thats only because its easier to score against spanish teams?

my god this argument just took a swerve via daftsville…and im being kind in naming that town!

VVD wasnt a tenth as good at Southampton as he has been for the last 18months, so what?! it just means he is playing at a better club with better players and a better manager AND has improved as a player, really dont get this argument now…

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[Editor]

Definitely a marked improvement there. It could easily be argued though that he was on such an upward trend regardless and that was as much a result of his development as a player as anything else. Very similar to Torres’s upward trend in his last seasons at A Madrid and his first few at Liverpool.

Also, could it not be argued that, if the PL is harder to score in compared to the rest of Europe, it is reasonable to assume that PL players should have the biggest increase in goals/games ratio when comparing league to CL stats? Any evidence of that? Remember Messi got 12 in 10 last season in the CL…

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[Nike19]

Just something in the Daily Mail (I think it’s Ronaldo’s Missus) taking a swipe at Van Dijk.

Personally, I don’t take this so-called ‘blue ribboned’ accolade seriously and never have done.

I’m sure Van Dijk’s sensible and level-headed enough to draw a line or just ignore any afters of nonsense. It’s done.

The only awards I took to any credence was the Footballer Of The Year award. I like too recognition aimed at individuals who have consistently performed at the highest level and given long service to their club, plus those that have contributed to helping their club achieve success in Silverware.

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