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I have seen some joke defenders in my 150 yrs of following football,but my does Lovren takes the piss? Makes Mangala look decent!
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Sean, How much of that is being tactically outclassed? I say none of it.
Lukaku is a beast and Lovren wasn’t able for him. The commentary that I was watching made a simple but good point regards the scenario too. If you switched CBs, Lukaku would just follow Lovren. Nothing you can do about it, so you’re actually better off leaving Lovren and VVD where they are most effective in general.
Not much of a tactical decision to have your striker give a CB a hard time, he’d do that without instruction.
As for TAA, ya he had a bad game but I think he’s been pretty good defensively before, showing no real weakness to exploit. Rashford just had the better of him on the day. He doesn’t get to play much for Utd and was out to impress.
As for any of the rest, I fully support Klopp’s first 11. I remember thinking when I saw it that it would be exactly what I’d have picked. I put almost 100% of the result down to the form of the players on the pitch, from both sides and not tactics or the quality of the team etc etc.
That’s just my opinion though.
Additional : As for us not getting a result again, remember this is Old Trafford and also we struggle to break down teams who park the bus. Every system has it’s strengths and weaknesses. We’re still perfecting our own and I definitely feel that with a little better form, that we can take the very best bus parker. Look at all the wasted possession, the indecisiveness and general poor play when not under pressure, or when space wasn’t an issue and that should tell you that it is form and not tactics that let us down today.
I still believe we’re on the right track. We’re a much more rounded team than we were last season but we’re just not quite there yet. As for imploding, who knows. That is where character and leadership come into play.
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Lovren is simply not good enough for a team with any ambition to challenge for the title,still question marks against the Keeper imo and as good as Robertson and TAAare in advance made they are defensively vulnerable.
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I think differently re Dejan Lovren – easy to pile blame and make him the supposed scapegoat.
Needed really a character and a personality in which we didn’t have.
Don’t fret above all and it’s not the end of the world. No need for an abundance of analysis or thoughts that are negative when it’s could just well have been a bad day in the office.
When people are down, make people feel good, not even more bad.
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No abundance of thoughts mate but imo and a lot of other people who are much better judges than I am also believe Lovren is a weak link.
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Nine, I’ve seen him play live mate and for me, he’s a presence and no-nonsense.
Personally, I’ve faulted him in the past, but on the other hand, I value him.
Perhaps to some extent, he could have done more to support TAA. Maybe in Hindsight a Steve Nicol, Jim Beglin, Alan Hansen, Mark Lawrenson would have been perfect, but that’s the reality of us.
Always a great deal to have to deal with when opposition defensive duties are incessant, and with very little protection or call of the Referee.
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Fair enough Nil.
Realistically it doesn’t matter what any of us think of Lovren it’s only what Klopp thinks of him that counts. Personally I will be surprised if Klopp doesn’t look to strengthen that area in the Summer. But we’ll see. Cheers 999
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Feel pretty low this morning. This defeat has consumed me π
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Robertson hasnβt made one mistake leading to a goal. He can defend
Mak fair points but we didnβt have a ya tic to beat utd and Jose had one to beat us so it proves my point
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Feel pretty low this morning. This defeat has consumed meWhy mate? You lost to MANCHESTER UNITEDnot some small club,lol.
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CM-I really don`t understand why the worry so much about Pogba? If he wants to go and play somewhere else then he can do one.Same goes for Martial,and I would take SMS and Saul Niguez right now! We are linked with Β£400m bid for Neymar,much rather buy 4 players costing Β£100m each instead.
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Nine, I don’t agree that Robertson and TAA are defensively vulnerable. This was only one game, I mean if you picked one of the 2 who I said could improve defensively, I’d pick TAA but even then, he’s still quite solid. Robertson is excellent defensively.
Lovren was very poor but this also is on the back of some good performances but you’re not wrong Nine, the question over him about whether he is good enough to be in a PL winning side is a very valid one. Before Van Dijk arrived, the answer for me would have been “absolutely not good enough” but he’s looked better after switching to the RBC position. He’s displaced Matip, which is something.. but less of something when you really look at Matip, who’s gone downhill a bit this term.
Overall I would go with your opinion that Lovren isn’t good enough and look to sign another CB in the summer. I think Klopp should stick Matip in for a few games in a row and see if he can get his form back. We have some massive games coming and we can’t afford to have someone losing the head (which Lovren did in this match at times). Matip may have made some mistakes of late but he’s a cooler customer.
As for TAA and Robertson, I know Klopp loves Moreno. . . but if he drops Robertson, I’ll be livid. I remember the first match that we got to see Robertson in action and right after a really good performance (I was quite shocked because I wasn’t expecting much), he was dropped and not seen again for ages. As far as our individual performances go this season, we obviously have the front 3 as our star performers but the 4th best performer for us, in my opinion is Robertson. So ya, I’ll be pissed if he is dropped. TAA, I’m in 2 minds on him. I think Klopp will drop him for Gomez and part of me agrees but I also wouldn’t want to see his confidence chattered. he’s a young lad (only 19 I think), he’s got a bright future ahead. . I think I’m leaning towards keeping him in for the next match and think maybe Klopp should give him some words of encouragement. Gomez is a solid option though also.
Sean, not to be argumentative but I don’t agree that Jose had a tactic to defeat us. I stated why above in my other post when I said that merely playing your main striker is not much of a masterplan. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree but I standby what i said, if you look at all the sloppiness from us when we weren’t even under much pressure, I think you can see a pretty big part of the answer as to why we didn’t at least walk away with a point.
We were just very poor.
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Fair points again mak. We were sloppy
Problem with lovren is he will
Always have Games in him like yday.Heβs not good enough. I think we need two centre backs
Robertson has been excellent. Both going and defensively. He hadnβt made one error that has cost us a goal
Vvd is playing well but he needs help. We need Clyne back. Taa is not a right full by trade but heβs done quite well this season.
Iβd agree with nine about taa but not Robertson who has been rock solid for months now
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Well, you were right, Sean, though I’m sure you don’t get any pleasure from being right! However, United were not the better team, though arguably nor were we. At 2-0 down we could have capitulated, but instead we came out in teh 2nd half and gave it a go. 2 big errors led to their goals, individual brilliance from Rashford also, at least 2 big, clear penalty decisions didn’t go our way, and we battled to the end.
So although the result was poor, it’s not time to be too downhearted, I don’t think.
And this ‘Mourinho outsmarted Klopp’ – I don’t buy it. Lovren and Trent made big errors, but I can’t really argue with klopp’s team. They just didn’t perform on the day. Mane was dreadful, Salah was brilliantly shackled by Young, Milner and Ox, despite being excellent recently, just didn’t get in to the game, whereas their players did.
So we just go on. 2nd place is still open…I just hope City spank them…as well as Seville!
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Hh-That is why a team wins and the other gets beaten mate,namely: They just didnβt perform on the day
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HH-
How mamy teams have kept Mane, Firminho and Salah quiet in the same game. When 1 has a poor game, the other 2 turn up, when 2 are kept quiet, 1 of them turns up. Jose had a game plan to keep all 3 quiet and it worked, that is why people are saying Jose outsmarted Klopp.
Saying that I do not understand why Henderson was dropped yesterday. The last time Liverpool were on a poor run West Brom at home in the FA Cup and Swansea league game, he was out injured. As soon as he returns, your back to winning ways. He offers more than what some believe. Protects the back 4 well and dictates play well. Can is more box to box and his covering in the opponent final 3rd is poor. Henderson not spectacular, gets the job done there. He does not get stuck in, but reads the game and intercepts, predicts what the opponent is going to do and gets close to them in order to force them to make a mistake. Such a underrated player imo.
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Mav – that’s what I’m saying, mate…we didn’t perform!
Solskjaer – it’s an arguable point whether it was Jose’s plan or whether it was just fantastic defending by Young, particularly, but also Smalling, Bailly and Valencia, and of course Matic. They were on top of their games. Salah at al weren’t. I’m not sure how much of that is down to Jose, and how much is down to the occasion, form, pressure and all the other intangibles. I’m sure Jose would say it was down to him! And I agree about Henderson as well…you won’t find me underrating him. I would have played him instead of Milner yesterday, but as I stated above, I can’t really argue with Milner’s selection as he has played well in recent weeks. I’m just gutted because I really fely yesterday was big chance for us, and whatever the reason for it is, we blew it.
Anyway, congrats to the Utd boys on here (through gritted teeth!), but I haven’t given up on second place yet.
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Mak, I think Robertson and TAA are much better in forward mode than they are in defensive mode and to be fair that’s how they’re most employed in the majority of Liverpool’s games.
Perhaps vulnerable was too strong and the description above is more apt albeit that TAA was primarily culpable for United’s first goal and Mourinho confirmed United targeted two Liverpool defenders supposedly TAA and Lovren? Cheers 999
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Sean, when you say that you think we need 2 CBs, do I take it that you’ve come to the decision that Matip isn’t up to it? He’s not been stellar this season but I hold out hope for him . . maybe I’m wrong to, I’m honestly not sure. As for Lovren, ya, he always has these games in him and isn’t good enough to be our first choice. I found it odd that the club offered him a huge new contract some months ago.
As for TAA, maybe you remember my general ranting back when I used to go on TT regards him being used as a winger for us. I really think he has some great attacking instincts. I dont want to sell him short though defensively because although he’s nowhere near as good as Robertson in that department, he’s just not as bad as that Utd game made him look. He had a bad day and everyone is entitled to them. Nine, as brilliant as Robertson is going forward, I think he’s almost as good defensively, in time maybe you’ll change your mind. Or maybe I will! . . but I’ve watched a lot of him and the lad just doesn’t stop impressing.
SK, I don’t think it was a case of Mourinho keeping the front 3 quiet, bar Salah. Even including Salah, he looked a off but was at least well marked. Mane on the other hand was not controlled by any Utd payer in the slightest. He was just poor but you could see how easy it was for him to make space for himself even then. People are so quick to laud praise on Jose’s mastery but it just doesn’t fit this time and this isn’t sour grapes.
As for 2nd, it’s still there sure but I’m more worried about actually dropping out of the top 4 now. We need to rack up a few wins. Beating Chelsea is incredibly important now.
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