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442, I am extremely grateful where we are π
This time round however, I hope we finally win the League Championship after a long wait since 1990.
Cheers
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I for one am extremely happy with Liverpool’s current success and hope they win the title this year rather than City. There’s some good supporters around with Nil, Sean and a bloke I used to work with. 30 years is way too long.
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Thought I’d bring the midfield conversation over here away from the champions league discussion.
Are Henderson, Wijnaldum and Fabinho three of the very best midfielders in the world? No. Are they three of the very best for the tactics Klopp uses. Yes. Does that combination of players and tactics create one of the best teams in the world? Yes.
Pep has a wonderful team but he and Klopp are different. They need different players. Why is everyone comparing and aspiring our team to be like City? Our midfield I mentioned plus Milner won the champions league and got 97 points, that’s what I mean about perspective of criticism, it’s nothing to do with how much you watched them this season. Sorry if that offended you Mak, I just didn’t see the value of your remark.
Personally I love Klopps style. I love what the midfield does. Admittedly they dont always function perfectly, no team does, not even City. Sometimes the opposition have their tactics spot on and need credit. But even if i were a natural I’d rather watch a Klopp style team than a pep one. What i really dont get and think is out of order is when fans jump on the this midfield is shit bandwagon, or Henderson is shit more specifically, or we need creative players. Yet overall we play great and points wise achieved more than any other liverpool team ever has.
Football is not just about sticking the best players together and expecting them play the best football, thats the realm of computer games. It’s about synergy, compatibility and most importantly tactics. Let city do what they do, I’m enjoying this Klopp journey with Henderson being a major part of it.
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I agree threeps, some wanted Pepe in and I was one but after conversations with yourself and others, I understood the logic of not getting him. Delighted we didnβt now. He would never fit into our team
A good young and up and coming player would have been my thought who was going to have the spent the majority of time on the bench
Our midfield players each play a vital role in a system. They k ow their jobs inside out. Sometimes Iβd like to ox or Keita in there for specific games
All of a sudden some are questioning fabhino now which I donβt get at all. I value Mikus comments and we rarely disagree but we do on our midfield st times
I donβt think we are playing as bad as some are suggesting. Our 1st two goals last night were excellent
Iβm concerned we are a bit open but itβs been a fantastic start to the seasin
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Just watched the goals again and Robertsons goal was of the highest order. Our much maligned captain played a big part in the build up.
We have it very good at the moment, dont get the negativity.
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He was instrumental in the build up to their goal too.
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I donβt really get involved in the Henderson debates. He gives it everything. Sometimes it good enough, sometimes not but I like him as you just know by his comments how much it means to him to be our captain
Just look at the videos after the cl final and you know how much lifting yhatbteiohy meant to him. Was absolutely delighted to see him lift it
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“He was instrumental in the build up to their goal too.”
VvD look pretty culpable for a couple of their goals, he must be shit. Jesus…
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Vvd worst game for us the other night. He was brilliant againest sheff utd but dies he need a rest? Played in the summer with feck all rest. Can we rest him though?
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Sean, this is what I’ve tried to bang the drum for weeks.
Of course Van Dijk needs a rest mate.
Ferguson in the 90s had a core of defenders, but then would bring in for example Ronny Johnson and rest Gary Pallister.
You have to have a top class like-for-like player by your side or be able to bring on the pitch alternative re-enforcements.
Fergie back then also had available Sheringham and Solksjaer as Supersubs.
60 games plus for 1 player is too much.
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The problem is as I said on the other thread is that we are up against almost footballing perfection the way Guardiola plays the game. And the premier league points system rewards bolder teams. Anytime I watch City, I never ever doubt their ability to score at least a few goals in a game, no matter who the opposition – defensive teams or attacking teams, home or away. We can all rightly praise how good we are, and we know without Guardiola weβd have won last year and would probably have the league wrapped up by February this season. But he is here and heβs raised the bar to such an extent we have to be ultra critical of our team and how it can find an edge on City.
And I think this is all linked to our midfield, particularly in these big away games. Is it really too much to expect at least one of our midfielders to drive in to the opposition and so free up space for our front 3 or even shoot and score a goal? Remember, we never replaced Coutinho – who popped up with big goals at big times for us. Last season we were all waiting and hoping for Keita to deliver. And the same to some extent, is true again this season.
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Threeps, would it be possible for you to talk about this without taking up a dramatic position on it? Nobody here has called Henderson shit and even like Sean, I was delighted to see him lift the CL. He was instrumental in our winning of it. He has however made numerous mistakes that have or haven’t eventually led to goals for the opposition, so far this season. His performance level so far this season is not good enough, in my opinion. You can disagree but I’d prefer if you do that you not bring it down a level with the histrionics.
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I didn’t get why you needed to have a dig at him just after I mentioned his part in a very good goal.
Last season and this one we have built big leads and then taken our foot off the gas. Take the 4 nil half time lead against Norwich. I think Klopp knows we cannot maintain his style for the whole game as it takes its toll over an entire season. We were knackered a couple of seasons ago towards the end by going flat out but now control the game in a more reserved manner. Salzburg didn’t accept defeat and I think shocked our players who only responded after some changes when it was nearly too late.
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Well, for one, I haven’t only mentioned this after one game. I’ve spoken about it before and earlier on, I even said Fabinho had to cut out the mistakes. The thing about Fabinho though, is that his general level is much higher than Henderson’s. I don’t see why my opinion that Henderson isn’t playing to the standard we require must mean that I’m “having a dig at him”.
As for your mentioning his part in a very good goal (true), it was enveloped in the original discussion though, so it was definitely warranted to offer a counter position and it so happened that there was a great example in the same game, so I don’t see the problem but you can’t say anything negative about certain players without people taking it personally. I’d suggest trying to steer clear of an emotional response TBH. In the end of the day you can write off my opinion in your own mind.
Mikus said it best when he spoke about the level that City demand in order to beat them. Either Henderson rises and maintains a certain level, or he gets replaced in the starting 11 by someone who can give us that extra quality.
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I think what we need to realise and understand is that Henderson with all due respect to him isn’t that ilk of a player to be able to handle certain types of players with pace, agility and technical ability.
Liverpool struggle when team dial up particularly during the second half knowing the players are tired.
We have HAD to have adopt and adapt to a conservative game fundamentally for this reason.
We need Keita fit and he was the whole reason why Klopp chose to sign him to fill this plug-hole. Luckily for us, we nabbed Fabinho last year who’s been outstanding for us.
We can’t counter-attack in a way that allows us to play gung-ho because we’ve lost Coutinho. Like it or not, he was big part of those dynamics. We’ve got muscle instead and so our strength is to be able to control the tempo.
The test however is being resilient for 90 MINUTES. We have shipped in goals in the second half and this is why this discussion keeps flagging up.
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Keita… Now he’s a one who I’m a little ambivalent about. He’s definitely had a few games where I’ve thought “this is the player Klopp signed” but more often than not, I look at him and think that he’s likely not going to work out. Read that sentence clearly before you reply lads, I am not writing him off entirely, or saying he 100% isn’t going to work out.
He’s had some major disruptions to his playing time, whilst settling in and we’ve got to consider this and hold final judgment but I am telling you that unfortunately, I’m dubious. If people on here see this as me having a go etc, save your breath, I’m only expressing my opinion on the information so far and there has been many examples of him maybe not possessing the qualities we need. I hope it’s a case of him needing to come out of his shell a bit, as he sometimes looks a bit tentative in his play.
I worry most about the passing side to his game. I can say that Hendo might not quite be good enough sometimes but his passing can be really good when he’s on form and Keita’s energy on the ball is not worth much if he can’t spot and execute a good ball.
I realise I’m going on a bit. With Keita, I’m thinking about his play last season and I’ve a bad memory, so specific examples are not gonna happen. What are your thoughts on him alds? If I asked ye to forget your hopes for him, or to put aside the money we’ve spent and also the fact that he does need more time/chances and a bit of luck with injuries…. from what you’ve seen so far only, what are your thoughts?
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Keita has shown glimpses of what we hope he can do Mak, but nothing more. Klopp has recently admitted that he’s only just started to grasp the English language. So fingers crossed he can now get an injury free run in the side and start delivering. Cautiously optimistic about him, but we’ll see…
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Mikus,mak Iβm not sure Our system suits Keita. Heβs played on the left of the midfield 3 and has even played on the left of the front 3. Heβs a player that should be playing through the middle in my opinion and would be great in a 4-1-4-1 system like city play
I still havenβt given up on him
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I’m still optimistic that Keita will come good. I watched a bit of him at RBL and thought he was tailor made for our system but so far it’s not quite been the case. I’ve read recently that Klopp has very specific demands of his midfielders and it can take a while for someone to fully understand them, hence why Fabinho had a fairly long bedding in period. For Keita it’s been longer but maybe that’s been influenced by a few injuries and some settling in issues.
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Some good points from you all. Sean, you might be right. I think though that this is something Klopp would have known bringing him here, so I’d be surprised if this is ultimately the stumbling block. If he can settle into the side though, it’ll be like we’ve signed someone and it’s the position where we need to improve. I think all other positions are 100% strong. I mean, ok, Trent can learn to defend better but on the whole, you’d not consider buying someone to “fix” that π
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