Goodbye Bolton?

[nine nine nine]

Stevo, I’ve always thought if you support a Club you have to experience the really bad times in order to properly appreciate the really good times and spend years at the actual coal face too.

Of the top Clubs perhaps only Chelsea and City fans of a certain age have truly experienced the good and the bar in the extremes but to a lesser extent United and Arsenal fans are appreciating that now also over a lifetime I think there will always be a more real relationship to a Club that you’ve grown up with going backwards and forwards to the ground every other week in all weathers and as you grow a bit older going to the away games where friendships are formed.

No one more than Brian our City fan on here is probably a better example to all of that and still doing it at 80 years young.

TV coverage and the computer age has changed the game it’s too easy for fans to attach themselves to the biggest Clubs and watch them in every game without leaving their armchairs allowing them to enjoy the reflected success.

That’s why I’m proud of how my Son is bringing our two Grandsons up in the game with season tickets to their local Club Bristol City and playing for their local team every week and going every other week with their Dad to support their local team builds a special relationship between Father and Son too where they both live the triumphs and disasters of that Club together which helps form a special bond between them.

The fans of Bolton touched the heights but I’m sure they would have been happy to forgo all of that for their Club just to survive.

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[nine nine nine]

Stevo, I’ve always thought if you support a Club you have to experience the really bad times in order to properly appreciate the really good times and spend years at the actual coal face too.

Of the top Clubs perhaps only Chelsea and City fans of a certain age have truly experienced the good and the bar in the extremes but to a lesser extent United and Arsenal fans are appreciating that now also over a lifetime I think there will always be a more real relationship to a Club that you’ve grown up with going backwards and forwards to the ground every other week in all weathers and as you grow a bit older going to the away games where friendships are formed.

No one more than Brian our City fan on here is probably a better example to all of that and still doing it at 80 years young.

TV coverage and the computer age has changed the game it’s too easy for fans to attach themselves to the biggest Clubs and watch them in every game without leaving their armchairs allowing them to enjoy the reflected success.

That’s why I’m proud of how my Son is bringing our two Grandsons up in the game with season tickets to their local Club Bristol City and playing for their local team every week and going every other week with their Dad to support their local team builds a special relationship between Father and Son too where they both live the triumphs and disasters of that Club together which helps form a special bond between them.

The fans of Bolton touched the heights but I’m sure they would have been happy to forgo all of that for their Club just to survive.

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[Nike19]

Either people misinterpret what is printed (which is possible and there’s no human contact), or they only see what their eyes want to see.

Not that I need to justify myself, but I’ve supported my club through good-bad-ugly.

Even with Hicks and Gillette and the dark times circa 2010. I blooming well spent a lot of my time posting at the other place!

I can resonate with Mak. He can choose to support his team how his wants.

The only reason my club was mentioned was to highlight on the back of what’s happened to Bury, that I don’t what I’d do if this happened to my team – I’d probably jack the whole lot in as it would to me be like something lost for good.

Just because 2 posters supporting the same team comment together about relatively the same subject doesn’t mean a thread has been hi-jacked or turned into LFC!!!

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[nine nine nine]

Brian is how football fans were and he’s still going to City 80 years young.

TV and the Computer Age has changed all that people can now attach themselves to Clubs and follow every game on the internet from their Armchairs from wherever they live it might be progress but it’s not a great foundation for being a football fan imo.

Football Clubs are part of a community especially in places like Bolton or Bury and there will be fans in those towns that have been going to see their Clubs week in week out in whatever weather and no matter how successful they are and fans like Brian followed City into the 3rd Division before their new found success.

I live in Sunny Somerset and it depresses me to see kids around here in the shirts of the elite Clubs including Chelsea kids need to support their local team and go week in and week out to live games I remember the joy and awe in my Grandsons face at his first Bristol City game which are his local team. Pleasingly my Son and Grandsons have Season tickets at Bristol City and go to every home game and play for their village team too.

Hopefully that provides them with a good foundation in football and they will love the game like their Dad and Grandad have.

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[Luckydestiny]

I completely understand nine.

TV and the Computer Age has changed all that people can now attach themselves to Clubs and follow every game on the internet from their Armchairs from wherever they live it might be progress but it’s not a great foundation for being a football fan imo.

Its not a great foundation for football itself nine, football was founded on local teams and grew as the teams grew, if football was invented today it would be impossible for it to be like it was or mean as much to people as it has done, as the few founding teams would have monopolised the tv audiences from the go. The game was never going to be able to survive as it was as soon as tv and advertising became factors.

Now while I will keenly read every nostalgic post offered by you and Brian, and share your disappointment at what is being lost, as we all know we can not rewind the clock here, we can only hope that we find a new balance which allows the lower tier clubs to survive and serve their communities whilst the elite clubs monopolise the tv audiences.

I was thinking as I was reading your post, but could a european super league actually be the answer to to this? I mean lets face it, Fulham and QPR are never going to challenge Chelsea, Arsenal or spurs. Bury and Bolton were never going to compete with utd and city. Its gone too far now. If you are a child you are bound to be more attracted to the more successful clubs. I personally think the elite clubs sodding off in to a superleague that was televised internationally would satisfy the suits that run the game and would capitalise on the global market and appetite for elite football. The remaining 99% of domestic clubs in england would remain as say the EFL, and we as fans can allow ourselves to have 2 teams, our super league club, and our EFL club. The cost of tickets at the superleague games, plus the limited seats plus geographical factors mean that the vast majority of fans of top teams will never see them live, the EFL would have to jump on this as their main promotional device, the EFL offers what the super league does not, the true traditional match day experience. And if we accept this change as fans and allow each other to have 2 clubs without ridicule, I think it could work.

There is a lot of money in the EFL, nowhere near PL, but lets not kid ourselves in to thinking there is not enough money for these clubs to survive, they can all survive if their owners are forced to run the club within its means and not purchasing clubs to bleed them dry or overspending in a naive desire to “get to the top” and hit the jackpot with PL money.

Another thing you need to consider nine is that some kids growing up do not have a local team in the football league they can relate to. I for example grew up in the Rhondda valleys in south wales, Cardiff my closest league club, then Newport, then Swansea. But I am not from Cardiff, I hate bloody Cardiff in truth, I am not from Newport or swansea, for me supporting one of those clubs is no different than if I supported Glasgow rangers, I feel no “local connection” To add to this I did go to see cardiff when I was a child with my uncle. It was horrible, the fans, the language, they didnt even care about the game it was abusing the other fans. All pissed out of their head, and shit football to boot. I was never ever going to go back voluntarily. Then my cousin who grew up in Oxford and was a chelsea fan through family came to stay, I was abut 9 or 10 around 1993/94. He was a fanatic and really got me in to chelsea, I liked football as a kid, everyone supported pool or utd in the valleys and I think it was just to be different that I started following chelsea. By the time they lost the fa cup final 4-0 to utd I knew I was a chelsea fan as I actually cried. You know the trajectory of the club from that point on, but I fell in love with Gullit, Zola, Di matteo all these great players I could see on TV that I would never see local, and while I live nowhere near London I was not going to have anyone tell me I am not a true fan when the emotions I feel towards chelsea are as real as any I have experienced. I have been to the bridge, but it was never possible as a regular thing because of the cost of travel and tickets. As much as us children of the nineties are a different breed of footie fans to those that come before, you cant blame us for that, but the same rules apply, once you love a club you can never ever turn it off, no matter if you watch them primarily on MOTD or from the stands.

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[steveosnakeeye]

once you love a club you can never ever turn it off, no matter if you watch them primarily on MOTD or from the stands.

unless they get a poor manager like hodgson then you can 😉

im waiting for the Mak backlash with great trepidation!

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[steveosnakeeye]

very good post though lucky and some decent ideas not that i think it would work out that way but the idea is solid! and all that from a valleys boy? who would have thought 😉

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[Chucky McChuckface]

A well thought out post, cyber chum, but I have to disagree with a few aspects of it.

I, for one, would hate to see the big-clubs leave (even if mine is included or not). That really would be the death of football for me. Finishing top of the pile is obviously every club/fans dream and finishing top of a pile that’s been “reduced” somewhat would feel very hollow to me. Don’t know what other fans would think, especially fans of “smaller” clubs.

As for the likes of QPR, Fulham, Bury or Bolton having no real sniff (certainly the last two, poor buggers!) of greatness I wouldn’t be so sure. I certainly don’t want to believe that, that’s for sure. Football goes in cycles, that’s for sure. Who would have thought 10-15 years ago, clubs like Chelsea, Man City, PSG would be were they are now? Sure, it took a boatload of cash for them to reach the top, and they’ve replaced certain clubs to get there. Nothing stopping any other club doing the same.

Look at my Spuds. I have no problem saying it, we’ve never really been top of the tree throughout our history. We flirted a bit with it in the early 80’s perhaps, been pretty fooking dire for the late eighties, nineties, and naughties, but now with some very careful long term management planning, we’re within touching distance of a pretty decent period on our history. Again, there’s nothing stopping the likes of Fulham achieving this (either way).

The European League marlarky, we all know it’s being run like a bit of a closed shop, but they haven’t completely shut the door to outside teams. Genuinely think some of the more historical clubs wouldn’t even want to do that anyway. Too many local rivalries on a national level.

Still maintain, as I’ve said before, a lot of the charm of the big European games is down to both the “novelty” value, it’s not everyday you play a Barca for example, and most importantly, they’re also on a knock-out basis. I genuinely don’t think Madrid vs Juve for example would have as much charm if it were a “league” match as such. Maybe for the fans of those two clubs, but for neutrals? Not much at all, I certainly wouldn’t be bothered unless it was a knock-out “cup” game.

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[Luckydestiny]

Chucky, chelsea and city broke the mould through outside investment, that is the only way the monopoly of elite clubs can be broken, but the turkeys have cast their vote and sadly the majority voted for xmas ie FFP.

I am sure Fulham fans would love to think you are right, but they are not spurs banjo, never will be. they dont have the history, the fan base, or the sheer number of consecutive seasons in prem league required for spurs to have done what they have done. If your idea of football is that beautiful pyramid and the dream that anyone can get to the top, I am sorry to say but your football is already dead and aint coming back, a super league is a response to this, not the cause imo.

I dont like the idea of a super league banjo either, and I like the system we have, but things are changing fast and I get the feeling it is inevitable anyway.

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[nine nine nine]

Good post Lucky and as always some good points.Im not Brian’s age but I hope I can get there.

I hear everything you say but generally speaking to be a proper football fan imo you have to regularly attend live games and there’s no excuse in supporting Manchester City if you can get to see Bristol City every week.

I know some will say it’s progress but nobody will ever convince me that watching football on a Computer makes you a fan.

I grew up in West London and my Dad had health problems and even though he took me to my first live game at Chelsea which created my love for Chelsea I wasn’t allowed to go to Chelsea on my own until I was 12 so I went to Brentford.

From there I watched Chelsea and Fulham each week then as I grew up a lot of my mates were Gooners so I went to Arsenal games with them when Chelsea weren’t at home before progressing to Chelsea away games and Chelsea Season tickets.

I’m grateful to my Dad for embedding live football in me before I was old enough to go to games we cycled to the BP Sports ground to watch them play.

I did the same with my Son’s from aged 5 and now my eldest Son is doing the same with my Grandsons at Bristol City including like I did and my Dad before me running his Sons around often in different directions to play for their local Club.

In doing that they should both develop a deep and lasting love for the game that will last them for a lifetime and in my humble opinion that’s the way to do it and it’s not claiming you’re a Man City fan because they’re the latest big thing although you live miles away from Manchester and only ever watch their games from the comfort of your Armchair.

There was a Chelsea poster on Teamtalk last season who posted that he seen every Chelsea game last season but it turned out he had only ever watched them on his computer.

Greenaway would be turning in his grave.? Cheers 9’s

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[nine nine nine]

ps: “once you love a club you can never ever turn it off,” Very true Lucky as the saying goes you can change your wife your job and your car but you can never change your football Club.

Or “You can change your wife, change your politics, change your religion. But never, never can you change your favourite football team!” This memorable line, taken from Ken Loach’s comedy-drama film *Looking for Eric, *during which the central character idolises French legend Eric Cantona, is an appropriate summary of the relationship that every supporter enjoys with his chosen side.”?

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[nine nine nine]

For anyone who doesn’t know Mick Greenaway from Adam Ant here’s a bit if an insight he was an over land and sea Chelsea fan and I knew him well.

“In a first for our growing Chelsea legends series, we take a look at someone who never played for the club, but was instrumental in creating Chelsea’s famous terrace culture.

Micky Greenaway was a larger than life character, and every Shedite has a tale or two about the legendary leader of the Shed End.

Throughout the 60’s. 70’s and 80’s, Greenaway was an awe inspiring figure, leading the Shed End in some magnificent chanting that puts some of our current atmospheres to shame!

Legend has it that after a trip to see the blues play Liverpool at Anfield, Micky was inspired by the Spion Kop and chose to recreate something similar at Stamford bridge, a center for all of the most passionate supporters.

The Shed End was chosen because of it’s acoustics, the roof helping to direct the boisterous chanting towards the pitch, and despite the fact that the Shed was not the best place for singing and chanting due to it’s uncovered nature, the fans still pumped out magnificent atmosphere’s. Even West Ham’s Cass Pennant ended up admitting that we had the best singers in London.

Chelsea can attribute some of our most famous chants to Greenaway, indeed he gained his fame at home and abroad for his chanting of the Zigger Zagger song, which is now a Chelsea classic. He was truly a leader in terms of singing and chanting, when others around him got a bit quiet he would simply sing louder, encouraging more fans to join in!

Another terrace favorite of today was started by Mick, with Ten Men Went to Mow being created on a pre-season tour of Sweden. Chelsea fan Garry Jones explains the origins of the song…

‘In 1981 he took a childrens tape on the pre-season tour of Sweden. On that tape he played ‘one man went to mow’. What is extraordinary is that outside of childrens radio this song had never been heard. It was not a football song. We sung it in Sweden when we heard him playing it. It became a bit of a laugh. Most of us on the tour met up again, three days after returning home, for Chelsea’s pre-season friendly against Exeter. We sung ‘one man went to mow’ for a bit of a joke. From there it went to the pubs outside the ground, The Swan, The SBA and the Britannia. And then into the grounds, at first at away games, and by the end of the 81/82 season ‘Greenaway’s’ song was heard at home games. Just think, 60,000 Chelsea singing that song at the cup final of 97 – And all because of Greenaway.’

Despite many accusations that he was involved in some of the Shed End’s infamous firms, the general consensus amongst those who actually knew him was far different.

‘Micky liked people and he wasn’t in the business of hurting anyone,’ said a former acquaintance.

Indeed, there are even stories of Mick stopping fighting if there were children in the way. He often showed up at the bridge wearing a business suit and carrying a briefcase, hardly the dress of a hooligan leader the Mirror painted him as!

Like most Chelsea fans on the Shed, he did steam in when it was unavoidable, but usually left it to the likes of Danny ‘Eccles’ Arkins and Steve ‘Icky’ Hickmott.

In the 90’s, Micky’s life was ruined by the press, who spun stories of him being a leader of a Chelsea firm and organizing riots, despite much evidence to the contrary. Because of the baseless accusations from the press, Micky lost his job and sadly was banned from the ground.

Without Chelsea in his life, many say he took a turn for the worst, and the Shed simply was not quite the same without our inspiring leader.

Mick passed away in August of 1999, and was buried in Hither Green. He was a true leader of the Shed, a man responsible for Chelsea’s famous terrace culture and if it was not for him our club would just not be the same.

Next time you sing Zigger Zagger or Ten Men Went to Mow, take a moment to remember Mick, a true terrace legend and a true Chelsea legend.

R.I.P. Micky Greenaway.”

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[Chucky McChuckface]

You can change your wife?? Nobody told me that…

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[Chucky McChuckface]

LD… we’re sort of agreeing and disagreeing on the same thing here. Sure, the liklehood of Fulham reaching the heights that Spurs are currently at is highly unlikely, agreed, but it certainly isn’t impossible. That’s the point, that’s the dream, that’s the hope that all fans have.

I mean, who would have thought Leicester would have won a Premiership title with the likes of Chelsea, City, Liberoools, UnYooUtd, Goonies and the Spuds around???

While it remains possible, no matter how improbable, the hope is still there!!

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[nine nine nine]

Ha, ha, brilliant Chucky.?

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[Luckydestiny]

I hear everything you say but generally speaking to be a proper football fan imo you have to regularly attend live games and there’s no excuse in supporting Manchester City if you can get to see Bristol City every week.

I 100% appreciate that POV nine, while not every football fan has the disposable income to be able to do that regularly, leaving watching on tv the best alternative, in general terms I do agree that a regular match goer is more of a traditional “proper fan” than someone who doesnt attend games. The problem with all this though is that we a trying to rationalise something that in essence is emotional. Who are you or I to tell a kid in Aberystwyth that they have to ignore the excitment and joy they feel when they see liverpool play on tv and instead they have to watch Aber in the welsh football league and bloody love it because thats what real football fans do!? Yes they dont have the connection with pool like the regular anfield fans do, but it should come as no surprise to anyone that it is impossible for the majority of pool fans to actually watch the games at anfield anyway. If you fall in love with a club it was not a rational choice, it was an emotional connection that developed outside of your control. That is not the case for plastics obviously, no one can excuse basing your allegiances on who is winning the most or who spends the most money, and there does seem to be an increase in those types of fans amongst millenials, and that is depressing no doubt. I even remember being disgusted by seeing other people in my home town starting wearing chelsea tops after first title win, but unlike you the disgust was not that a person could support a non local team, it was that this person is 99% likely not to even be a genuine football fan and is simply attaching themselves to chelsea like a fashion brand now they are successful.

Ultimately Nine I think if most kids were taken regularly to see their local team that connection would develop, but kids cant make this choice mate, and for many it is off the table as an option. All they have is what is on the box and if watching pool, utd or chelsea gives them something to look forward to and brings them the joy that watching chelsea on the box has brought me, then it is much better than nothing at all mate. Its even worth being called a non-proper fan for 🙂

Btw, I too watch every game live,those not on british tv are broadcast around the world and so every chelsea game can be watched live. My free time is scheduled around chelsea’s games and I never miss one. btw it is a criminal offence to watch 3pm kick offs online, Have you ever risked prosecution to watch the chels? Thats a proper fan mate 🙂

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[nine nine nine]

Lucky, I get where you’re coming from buddie and I can understand your personal circumstances but why live in Leicester for instance and support Manchester City when you could support Leicester City?

Have you ever risked prosecution to watch the chels? Thats a proper fan mate.

No but I’ve had to run away a few times to avoid prosecution back in the day! Sometimes with Greenaway by my side.

You’re not a proper Chelsea fan until you’ve had to do that.?

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[Chucky McChuckface]

Got to disagree Puppy, if everybody is supposed to support their proper local team as such, then there really wouldn’t be any “big” clubs around, certainly not in London at any rate. The O’s would be my “default” team, and I’d happily bet a bag of Monster Munch there’s a club more local to you than Chelsea (BRENTFORD were mentioned!?!?).. might be wrong, but were Chelsea really your local “local” club? 🙂

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[Luckydestiny]

Agree with that Nine, if I grew up in a city or town with a football league club I almost certainly would have supported them.

Btw, what were you doing to risk prosecution you naughty boy? I will be honest, that part of being a fan never attracted me at all and if thats what being a proper fan is you can keep it mate, it was what I saw at Cardiff city. I dont want to be part of a army of hooligans, I want to watch a football team play football.

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[nine nine nine]

Chucky, Brentford I could get to on the Bus Chelsea was a train ride.

I’m a West London boy and Chelsea and Fulham were the two First Division teams at the time nearest to me and Chelsea was the first game my Dad took me too. Hence Chelsea for me. 1962/63 was my first season and Chelsea were in the 2nd Division at the time so no glory hunter.?

I’m talking about people who claim to be United fans but have never been inside OT most of whom live in London and watch United games on their PC’s etc etc.

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