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Interesting that the general view was that Mourinho was all defence and Pep was just attack.
Stats dont prove everything but City have conceded 3 and Utd 16.
I think that to an extent it shows attack is the best form of defence. By parking the bus perhaps you limit attacking options and possession?_____________________________
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I would say Mourinho has been better defensively until this season. And the reason is that Mourinho hasn’t got a settled defensive patnership. While Guardiola has that. The squad at City is far superior to the squad at United. All of the CBs at United are very poor they are not a United standard. Once Mourinho gets the ingredients that he needs, his defence will improve. Also his fullbacks are not that great. Another factor is that teams are scared of City. They don’t attack the same way they do with United.
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Adlab, City face more than one competitor in the PL. ? Liverpool for instance have only conceded one more goal than City and look very strong defensively now.
Cman, the reality is that Pep inherited a much better squad than Mourinho did and Pep has spent more money than Mourinho and spent better.
Lindelhof and Bailly were Jose buys but neither looks the right fit.
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Wasplicker-No need to be such a banjo m8,City will walk the league,win it by a double-digits difference-in points!
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Chelseaman perhaps you have a good point there. Teams are more likely to attack the Utd defence and commit numbers forward whereas against City they are reluctant to do so as City break so quickly. Agreed that Linderhof and Bailly are not that much better than Jones and Smalling whereas Kompany and Otemendi – if you look at the current team are as good as Stones and Laporte. Liverpool are better defensively since VVD and Allison plus they attack more.
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Editor re fixture list – the clocks have gone back an hour!(in the UK)!!!
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Nine, Kompany, KDB, Fernandinho, Sterling, D. Silva, S. Aguero, Otamendi. That is core of players that Guardiola has inherited. And amazingly Nine, all but Kompany and Otamendi are the key players that drive City today. On the other hand the only notable player that Mourinho has inherited from LVG is Martial and may be Rashord( with potential). The rest were deadwood. He has to start rebuilding from scratch. Obviosly this has been his toughest job and that is why he is miles off the pace. Klopp has 4 seasons uninterrepted. While the Media targets Mourinho,at a times rightfully and at a times unfairly. If Klopp can’t win anything this season. Pressure will be on him.
@Adlab, i haven’t seen any manager in the league play bravely and take the game to City. Even Liverpool seems to look for the counter. It will be interesting to see how Mourinho approaches the game in two weeks time. And he is at home. Will he play safe or will he take the game to City? He has players who can hurt City if deployed correctly._____________________________
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C-Man… are you sure mate? What about Doughnut Thief, Young, Smalling, Lingard, Shaw along with Matial and Rashford? And Maureen has bought Bailly, Lindloff, Pogba, Matic, Fred, Lakakaukkuk, Sancheez amongest others?
Both Pepe and Maureen had pretty decent squads to start with, both have also spent a ton of cash, Pepe has both simply bought better and also improved (COACHED) the players he had. Pepe has proven over the last couple of years he is a far superior manager…
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Ye I think both klopp and pep took a conservative approach in the Anfield game
City only let one full back push on and always played further back then usual
We did the same and backed off a bit
Utd have shown a few times under Jose they can cause problems to the so called bigger teams when they go for it
Utd seem to have to go a goal behind for them just to let loose as the Chelsea game showed
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Cheers Adlab. Now correct
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I think Pep is far outperforming Mourinho but I’d still like to see Pep do what Mourinho has done in terms of taking really unfancied teams and winning the CL with them.
Pep was getting loads of stick, even from City fans after his first season. He identified the right players, got them in and has absolutely bossed the league since then. If Pep has been choosing his players and Mourinho his, then even though Pep has spent more, he has spent so much better. Of course, 2e don’t know for sure whether or not Mourinho wanted the likes of Bailly and LindelΓΆf but we have to assume he did.
It’s an undeniable fact though that Pep took over a much much stronger squad and has supplemented that squad better than Mourinho has his. To put that theory into practice, Id be curious to hear how many Utd players any of you opposition fans would get into your team’s first XI. My guess is not very many, hence why I think it’s not all that surprising that Jose is struggling.
I think people forget just how good Pep’s Barcelona were. Possibly the best ever. And that Mourinho was still able to topple that side, breaking goalscoring records in the process. So, with the right players, he’s shown himself capable of overcoming a Pep side in the past. But nobody would even begin to think that this Utd side is anywhere near that Madrid side he had.
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Ed, I certainly don’t subscribe to this idea that Mourinho’s philosophy is out of date. As has been discussed at length, I think there is a disparity between the board’s idealistic strategy and Mourinho’s strategy. I think the board, under Woodward, have bought some marquee signings like Sanchez and Pogba, instructed the manager to also play and develop the youth, and seemed to think that Mourinho would be the silver bullet to bring it all together because of his previous records.
But in many ways Man Utd are a victim of their stature, what with Ed Woodward saying in the summer that “Playing performance doesn’t really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial side of the business.” There’s a big problem right there. Why spend more money whilst you’re making a very healthy profit?
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Mikus, I think that’s absolutely spot on. Re Woodward, that’s exactly why Utd are trying to get a football man in to oversee things. I think your points about the disparity in vision for the club is spot on.
What Woodward said is merely stating a fact. Utd could probably sustain their commercial growth without getting back to their previous dominant position on the pitch. He’s not saying they don’t care where they finish. He’s just saying where they finish doesn’t impact their commercial work. If he didn’t care where Utd finished, he would have stuck with Moyes or LVG. But that’s exactly why he’s the wrong man for that job. Someone needs to take control of the transfers who does have a solid vision. If that vision then clashes with Mourinho, then Mourinho should go. Right now, I trust Mourinho’s judgement over Woodward’s but, like you, I’m not convinced he’s got the players he’s wanted
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The squad Pep inherited was massively stronger than the squad Mourinho inherited. Aguero, Fernandino, De Bruyne, Kompany, Otamendi, Sterling, Silva were all key players in City title winning season last season.
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Nine
Not only those players had been key players last season. They are also their core players this season. There is no denying that Guardiola got better players to start with, and then thought of evolution, whilst Mourinho was expected to carry out a revolution. But take nothing away from Guardiola he is a world class manager there is no doubt about that. But people forgot that Mourinho had won the league with every team he has managed except United. Isn’t that an incredible feat?
Let people not get excuses that his team are poor this season to have a go at him. He is a world class manager but with poor atttitude. So if you separete Mourinho the coach from Mourinho the individual. And you realise what he has achieved. And winning the champions league with two unfancied teams should also count. He is only one of a few elite coaches who have won the champions league with two different teams. He may be down now but he is a wounded lion be careful.
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Wise words Cman.
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Ya, not so much a case of Mourinho’s style/strategies being out of date but more him being a poor match for Utd’s philosophy (as Mikus said) and also him being progressively more mad as the years have gone by. The guy is burnt out and either needs a break from the game, or to move to a club that is 100% on-board with the way he does business.
There is one thing that was kind of shocking to me about Utd but maybe it makes more sense when you really think about it and that is the fact that they have absolutely NO IDEA how to run the footballing side of things. The managers that they’ve picked since Ferguson stepped aside have been beyond dreadful. They had the luxury of being able to attract the best mangers and also the best players. They had every advantage and have seemingly made the absolute worst of it. I’m not putting the boot in but you really have to look at how they’ve gone about things. They’ve spent 100ms of millions to go backwards.
You’d think how could that be possible but you’re talking about a club who had been riding the Ferguson wave for years, not really needing to excel because he was carrying them. There were no real struggles to weed out the bad matches until it came to a time where some hard decision had to be made by someone else. Yes, Fergie recommended his successor but really it isn’t up to him and he’s biased as they are friends. I don’t count that as a fergie appointment, like some.
What utd need is someone up top, who knows what they are doing. Someone who cares about the heart and soul of the club. Heads need to roll and they’ve got to get back to playing devastating attacking football. I honestly used to look forward to the Utd games so much but i don’t even like them anymore. The fixture has been utterly ruined by the succession of anti-football managers they’ve had since Fergie left. Don’t mistake that as me missing him but this tie is dead. It’s been replaced by the Man City one for me.
Waffle over.
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Back to things Liverpool + PL. It’s a weird season. I expected to see things starting to take shape by the time 10 games came around. Ok, no longer just 2 points between the top 5 but you’d imagine that a team who won 8 games from 10 and drawing 2, would have some kind of daylight somewhere. Instead we’re looking at really strong pack of 5 teams.
I think every Liverpool supporter is just generally aware that Man City will not drop many points at all. It feels like just to keep pace, we’ve got to win every. single. game. Yet, where we are with them and we’re not alone. There’s a whole wolfpack of teams who seems to just be beating everyone else. Most of the points dropped up here seem to be to another top 5 team.
We head to Arsenal on Saturday and we have got to win. Does anyone give Southampton a hope in hell of getting anything from man City? I don’t. It’s really frustrating as a Liverpool fan because on one have I am thinking “finally! we’ve reached this level. We are of PL challenging quality” and then on the other, we’ve got Man City , who I said last season were the best team in the world and I’ve not changed my mind since. In order to win the PL ahead of them, we’ve got to be a lot better than most PL winning teams, in my opinion. Man City are special and you know what, the other teams around us are sneaking in under their absolutely massive blip on the radar too.
I can’t wait for the Arsenal match tomorrow but I really wish it wasn’t a case of us needing to go there and win, however, it is.
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