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Some good posts Mike good to see you posting on here.
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π I concur! Welcome Mike and great points
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Mike, yes it’s good to welcome more posters on here.
Regarding Wenger, he obviously didn’t come along until the later 90s and then the culture changed pretty quickly in the early 2000s when the big money came in. I think if we’d just bided our time clubs would have started to compete better with more effective strategies & boards. Yes, we could have still welcomed investment in, but better protected our clubs like the German ones have done. I do think part of it was also linked to globalisation & free trade which suddenly put a lot of our institutions on the global market and whilst it may have have given them a short term boost, it took control out of our hands.
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Welcome aboard Mike, and another Blue too π
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Thanks for the welcome all.
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Well I’ve just received an official apology from City (as will all season ticket holders and club members) signed by Ferran Soriano regarding City’s part in this ridiculous proposal. This is where the 6 begin trying to re-build their reputations with us I suppose. Makes me think there is an opportunity to push for real reform at European competition level – is it worth starting a new thread to discuss the new Champions League format proposals which went under the radar this week?
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I think the German model is over stated . I am not saying it is wrong but share structures are a game to be played by those who know the rules.
It would not work here because every man and his dog would think they own the club and entitled to call the shots and make decisions. Objectives would have to be spelled out and adhered to at the beginning of each season I would have thought or mayhaem would occur with English clubs, we just do not have the mentality to plan, eveything has to be “now”. It maybe a harsh comment, but would you really want fans having a big say in your club? If you take any 100 fans from any team and ask them to puck there team, you would have the collection of different teams!!! Did anybody object when premier took over? Will anyone object when UEFA announce there new league in 2023/4? We are all upset, mostly by the way it was done, it should have been explained much earlier and better_____________________________
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Mike…yes, I received the same and have responded to it. Fair enough, a mistake made, an apology made…I have accepted the fact, we have to move on. Everybody will learn from this episode and for me there is no point now in keep going over old ground to satisfy news print or TV time.That is my view but City Owners and Management have done more right than wrong for the Club and Manchester and will continue to do so. It would appear to me that many fans want to use this bad experience to oust owners they do not like rather than the act itself and this was apparent before the action took place.
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It’s a fair point about the German model Brian. I have to confess I’m not particularly knowledgeable about it, it just struck me as a way of putting in “checks and balances” at a club to place some restraints on the power of the owners. The crazy thing is we already have a de facto super league because the CL has been dominated by the big clubs now for at least 20 years with every winner in this period basically being part of the elite established clubs. So you could imagine from the owners perspective they felt a super league was simply a step to cement that dominance and they probably didnβt expect such a reaction to it as they probably felt itβs inevitable as itβs the direction of travel (albeit fast-tracked by the pandemic and the loss of incomes). For the moment, weβve avoided an official super league but you’re right, the ingredients are still there to eventually form one.
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I don’t think there’s any real bearing on Jack Walker or Liverpool as such from the 80s and 90s. None of those were invested externally.
The Glazers is where all this stemmed from and the Greed of Sky. Sky are an understatement. They’ve been horrid; thanks goodness for BT Sport.
The point of the original inception at the time was a breath of fresh air, and good. As the years went on though, it got greedier. The quality fell too and came more about quantity in excess.
Once one overseas ‘investor’ broke in, it open up an idea for others. In the midst of all this, Transfer Fees and Player Salaries yet to be curtailed ballooned greater than ever; Agents.
We get the smokescreen and the so called reasons used, shamefully, the pandemic, but there has not been one shred of openness, and honesty outright just to say “we want to make a few quid for our pockets”.
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You may well be right Nil but I also believe we all knew a change was on its way, not least of all the PL, FA. UEFA.Fifa. but what did they do about it….absolutely nothing, they were too engrossed on there lofty perches and this bit them in the bum. The bite is big enough to suggest it will happen again in another form unless some sensible changes to the game are made and stop all the tinkering. Above all decrease the power of TV and betting companies on the game, thereforein some small part , I would not put all the blame on the Investorswho clearly saw an opportunity but mis calculated the general feeling. It will also be noticed the ones with the biggest debts in Europe were the last to pull out …reluctantly
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That’s a very true point Brian on your last paragraph. From that point of view, it’s spiraled out of control.
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Not to worry chaps ESL will be back soon with everybody that counts on board
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The other thing that concerns me are the way fans are getting involved. I am a fan, however, when I look at the overall fans behaviour at football matches I have to ask myself , do we want any of these fans with a voice in our club or game, Season on season there is disrespect, fighting, brawling call it what you like but it happens on a regular basis. The amount of Police and Stewards to put a game on now is deteremntal to the game and the fault of the fans
I do want fans to have a voice at any newly formed organisation but I ask such a body to make sure they check the members out first. Many of you will not know of the enjoyment of standing next to visiting teams supporters and even cheering players from the opposing team, probably no more than a few “bobbies” in the ground and a couple of police horses outside…..I know nostalgia makes way for so called “progress”. but I have yet to see it from a fan point of view.
We should be careful just how much say you give to fans, however, a voice needs to be heard and reckoned with., that will not be done by shares but it will be by non attendance
Just my own view on the subject and a wish for the game to continue in an orderly way, fair to all_____________________________
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UEFA, listen to fans??? no they donβt, it was just a convenient aside for them regarding the ESL, if they listened to fans would we still have VAR?….Pagan
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There’s been talk about punishment and consequences surrounding the ‘aftermath’.
Maybe a 15-20 point deduction would be fair. Although Players and Managers themselves from those 6 spoken clubs were seemingly against the idea, there is an argument as to why should they suffer.
It’s the betrayal though from the owners. Is an apology enough? For me, No.
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No title challenge then again next season Nil.
Personally I don’t think it will come to that.
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I take the view that whatever the sanctions football and football fans will be the loser. To win a title with out competeing with the best is not a worthy title but in its own way…it own league…something they complained about. A monetary fie would be passed on to fans at some stage make no arguments against that, again , fans the loser
If the monetary fine was to be used for specific purposes , like helping the lower league teams but I see this going into the FA or UEFA coffers. It would also have an effect on the 6 clubs how they view any future co-operation FA or UEFA want. lets face it both these organisations cannot afford to be without these clubs contributions
I am against any sanctions because I think they will not serve a purpose other than satisfy a short term requirement and may even fuel. “another day” concept. It has to be put to bed, its over, get on with it. Have sanctions on whatever you want but there will be consequences as well. UEFA, with there track record cannot even take the moral high ground.
I would like to see the clubs involved help the grass roots more, something the FA are not doing or creating a medical health facility for the dementure sufferers , in other words , do something positive
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Have to admit, given the Sinister Six a 15 point deduction for next season would make it very, very interesting to watch… and with the fans back too… that could be a cracking season.
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Chuky…but interesting for who…that penalises the City/Utd/Liverpool. etc fans….why bother going to a match or what is the point of one of them beating one of the “remainers” when it means nothing? Imagine one of those teams wins the league but lost every game against the 6? The fans suffer, the manager/Players/Staff suffer, would that be fair? There would be approx 350,000 of them as match goers. I think as a watching spectacle it would be turn off for most of those fans and farcial Think something needs to be done but more on the lines of direct involvement, preferably to lower divisions and the provision for Dementia care, at least that would be my choice.
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