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Get a new manager in, give him money to buy players that suits his system, get in the CL, see that as a success, stop playing, get the manager the sack and repeat the process again.
Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results.
The club is finished.
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I still think they should have gone for Poch. Said it all along. I think he could have rebuilt that club, look what he did under the nutjob Levy
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If you’re appointing a manager at a big club, they really need to be a seasoned manager who has proven success at the top level, ideally at several clubs, and even better if in several different leagues. The Ten Hag appointment just struck me as a pipe dream. For me, once a club becomes established and big, you don’t then try and go on a “journey” to build things slowly with very young players and a coach with experience of mainly the Dutch league. The expectation is just too high so it’s unrealistic. Yes the recruitment team hasn’t been great, but if you get the managerial appointment right, these things tend to fall into place. I’m not sure Ten Hag has long. But will they get the next appointment right?
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I don’t think any manager could come in and sort this mess out. The club has no direction at all. Not sure what Ten Hag is trying to do. He buys a keeper who plays from the back, yet our build up play is terrible and indecisive.
Something looks off too. The players have given up and it all resembles what happened with Van Gaal, Jose and Ole. This is down to the owners, accepting this culture and allowing players to get their way for too long.
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Mikus-
Pep and Klopp have been a success due to the people who are in charge of transfers. If they were not around, then I doubt they would be as successful. In today’s football, you need the right director of football or sporting director in place.
United on the other hand stuck with Woodward for too long. He over spent, gave contracts to players when we needed to let them go because he thought he would get a fee for them, gave big money to players who didn’t deserve it and other mistakes he made. He brought in 2 numbers 10s at the start when we had Rooney, he then brought in Di Maria, who didn’t want to be there, a past his prime Falcao, a past his prime Schweinsteiger, and many others. He was as incompetent as they came. Overlooked managers targets and got his own for commercial reasons. Yet the Glazers stuck with him because he helped them finance the takeover. Klopp and Pep rarely buy established players, whilst that is all Woodward wanted. They both would have been a mismatch at United. It is not only down to managers, it down to how little the owners know about running a English football club.
Now we have 2 other Glazer stooges in charge with Arnold and Murtough. The same mistakes are being made.
Throwing money at players doesn’t achieve anything, if there is nothing there to build on. I don’t know what this club wants and where it wants to go. It is certainly not back to the top.
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But I don’t think those appointments were ever really the right ones CM. Yes some had the experience, but in my opinion Van Gaal & Mourinho were past their peak. And Moyes, Ole & Ten Hag had little to no experience of managing a top club in a top league with big expectations. Man Utd need a top, progressive/attacking manager at their peak. Looking through the possible candidates to succeed Ten Hag, I concede I can’t see many that fit the bill so some compromises will have to be made. Zidane is currently the favourite but again not sure he’d be the right appointment. Personally, I’m also not sure De Zerbi would be the right appointment either – I’m not sure if he’s balanced enough. Dare I say, it might potentially have to be another interim appointment. Either that or you just have to sit tight with Ten Hag for the moment. But he can’t keep losing these games, particularly at home.
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Pep and Klopp have been a success due to the people who are in charge of transfers. If they were not around, then I doubt they would be as successful. In today’s football, you need the right director of football or sporting director in place.
True to an extent, but I still maintain, once you make the right managerial appointment, everything else tends to fall into place. If the manager hits the ground running, which most good managers do, it lifts everything and top players then want to come and play for you and I think it sharpens the minds of people nearer the top of the club to get the right players in. I think it can be very infectious.
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I have to disagree Mikus. You look at who City and Liverpool had before Pep and Klopp.
Pelegrini won the league title with City and Rodgers was close to winning the title with Liverpool. Pelegrini went to West Ham and ended up with the sack after they were in a relegation battle. If you have the right structure in place to succeed, any half decent manager can do well. Liverpool and City have had decent people at top to help the manager. United haven’t.
Unfortunately United off the field have been neglected. If Klopp was in charge of United, he would have walked. Jose told the board Pogba was a bad influence, they stuck with Pogba and got rid of Jose. At Liverpool they would have stuck with Klopp and got rid of Pogba. Pogba is a commercial success and that is what matters to the Glazers.
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I tend to agree, but I think it’s a grey area. I don’t think the players have given up. I think they have had poor performances, I think their heads have gone when behind and I think there have been some very tight, marginal calls which has cost us. Add on top of that individual school boy errors.
At Bayern, great start from us, school boy error from the keeper, then a soft as you like, never going to be given again, penalty cost us a win.
Last night a crazy error cost us, and some wasteful finishing.
The numerous VAR calls which have, rightly or wrongly, gone against us in the league. Almost one per match, and many have been in stark contradiction of decisions in earlier or preceding weeks.
Fine margins at this level and whilst we have not been good enough we have had tight calls go against us.
The structure is there, and will improve when we get a LB back fit, our RB back fit and Martinez back fit. We have missed a couple of wingers for off field issues. Mount and Højlund being injured early in or from the start.
So I do agree that some performances have been way below the standard expected, but I don’t think we are a million miles away. I wouldn’t replace Ten Hag either.
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I still maintain Ten Hag was a sensible appointment. Every manager before him was wrong for different reasons. I don’t buy into this notion that any manager would fail at Utd. That it might not work out doesn’t mean it was the wrong appointment. Things happen at clubs which swing the momentum one way or the other and a few turns in the wrong direction can be hard to recover from. Ten Hag is as ruthless as they come but I now suspect he may have alienated the squad for what he’s done with Sancho. My worry here is that the squad will end up winning, we’ll bring a nice guy in again and the players will again rule the dressing room.
Zidane would be an awful appointment. I’m delighted we didn’t get Poch. He’s great when there’s no expectations but has always failed when expectations rise. He’s a bit too soft as well I feel. If Ten Hag was to go, which now almost looks inevitable, sadly, it has to be De Zerbi for me.
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Utd Are exactly we’re Liverpool for years.
We just got so many things wrong on and off the pitch. We bought very good players but they turned out to be poor. It was the exact same stuff. Rinse and repeat.
Klopp changed everything. We finally found the perfect match. We had a terrible ten years from when Kenny left in 91
When it rains, it pours. Off field distractions, shit owners , injuries etc. it just keeps pissing negativity
Was never a massive fan of ten hag but could see why utd went for him . He needs time. He’s spent loads of money. Mad to sack him
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“Was never a massive fan of Ten Hag”
What did you mean by that Sean? I always loved how he had Ajax playing. What was there not to like?
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What did he do at Ajax Ed that was so special?got to a cl semi final that they should have won? Frank de boer played the same kind of football and was found out in England. He won for 4 Dutch titles. Produced some good players but I thought there was always a huge over reaction. Great wins in the cl campaign
I always thought the job was to big for him. The step was absolutely huge and I said it at the time. I could see why they went for him as who else was there? I don’t rate him. Don’t rate the job he is doing even last year when oriole were going hugely overboard when Chelsea, Liverpool etc were dreadful. They got hammered loads of times. Terrible away from home. Huge over reaction to what some called a great season. It’s Man Utd ffs. He had a good season , that’s all.
It’s the biggest job in world football. It’s a massive massive step up from the Dutch league.
I understand about the owners but he buys the players. He coaches them. They conceded over 50 goals last season. I was told not to mention injuries as an excuse in here before but that’s all I hear.
That’s just my opinion
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As I say it’s just my opinion ion. You guys know the club much more then me and watch utd more. They just look so disorganised at times even last season. That all comes down to coaching. I was totally wrong about conte and could be about ten hag
It’s still very early days so maybe it’s a harsh judgement. He needs Patcience
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CM, whilst it’s true City & Liverpool did do well before Pep & Klopp, if you look at the margins they were much tighter. City won their first title of this era under Mancini on goal difference. They won their second title under Pellegrini by just 2 points. Rodgers did do well early on at Liverpool but I think in some ways was fortunate to harness the chemistry of Suarez & Sturridge. Look what happened when we lost Suarez – we invested badly and went backwards very quickly. For me, it was only when Klopp & Pep came in did both the recruitment of City & Liverpool get a lot better and more consistent. As for Pogba, I think he was just a poor purchase but because the club spent so much on him they were just hoping it would work out and didn’t want to take a hit. In my opinion a lot of the club’s spending over these years was somewhat done to overcompensate the case they didn’t have the right manager. And I think the signing of Ronaldo epitomised that. So I maintain that everything is rooted in the right managerial appointment.
The problem for me with Ten Hag in trying to pursue a long term dream of developing young players into a title winning machine is that I think it puts everyone in a more relaxed frame of mind at the club because the focus is the long term and Ten Hag has had a lot of say over transfers it seems. But all that has done for me is to put him under big pressure because this is Manchester Utd, one of the biggest clubs in the world! You have to deliver quickly.
Until the club makes the right managerial appointment, the club will continue to be in the doldrums. Everyone talks about the club lacking direction and leadership – but that ultimately comes from the manager! Watch what happens when Klopp & Pep leave their clubs – I think the clubs may then start be more rash in the transfer market to try and maintain their status. Just as Man Utd did in my opinion post Ferguson.
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Cm, Liverpool had one good season in 6 years until Klopp came in
Rodger’s finished 7th,2nd,6th
Year before kenny finished 8th. We only got going when Klopp came in and was given time
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Sean and Mikus-
You sort of saw what direction the clubs were heading under the ownerships and structure. The type of players that was being brought in i.e. Suarez and Coutinho. Klopp is a elite manager and he took you guys to another level. But would he have succeeded at United. I don’t think he would. Liverpool took a risk with Klopp on the back of a poor season at Dortmund, but they stood by him and had the right people to work with him to succeed.
There so many factors at United, the expectations would have been different. It took Klopp 4 years to win a trophy, he would have been sacked at United by then under the current ownership. Players would have given up on him etc.
Ten Hag did well at Ajax because he had Van Der Sar and Overmars alongside him. Look at that club now without them. They were successful prior to Ten Hag.
United do not have a vision, whilst Liverpool and City do. The club gave Ole a contract on back of a good interim spell. During that interim spell, that was the time to get things right, yet went with what they currently had. No top club would have done that. Then the club brought back Ronaldo, he should never have been brought back.
There is only so much a manager can do under a structure which clearly isn’t working and will never work.
The Glazers are insecure, rather than bring in real footballing people in, they brought in their own men, who are not good enough to run a football club. As long as the money keeps coming in, they don’t care.
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Ten Hag currently (After 7 PL rounds):
– 9 points
– Goal difference: -4 (7/11)
– League position: 10
– Points behind top four: 7Ole after 7 rounds:
– 14 points
– Goal difference: +8 (14/6)
– League position: 4Ole at the time he got sacked (Round 12):
– 17 points
– Goal difference: -1 (20/21)
– League position: 8
– Points behind top four: 6_____________________________
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Just a few responses CM to your post. I hear what you’re saying and I think there’s some truth to it and I think the owners have lacked impetus in moving the club forwards and maybe been too laid back. I think because the club have made the wrong appointments for so long now (about 10 years), a rot has almost set in and I think it is now deflating the whole club. You can argue the owners are ultimately responsible for those appointments but at the same time, it strikes me there’s been a significant movement within even the fans to try and find a new Ferguson and “do things the right way” and I think that’s partly influenced the owners, to the detriment of the club imo.
Secondly, having such spending power in the transfer market is, strangely, probably a disadvantage because the club I think feels it can always reach for a big money signing to try and paper over the cracks if the success isn’t coming, as I alluded to above. And I think such things have compounded the situation and if anything, has probably made some of those players more powerful.
As for the hypothetical of Klopp being at Utd, as I say above, I concede any manager going in now is going to have a real uphill battle to turn things around. So it’s even more important that they are an excellent man manager. But Klopp is that and I think regardless of how bad things are, he would still breathe fresh air into the team and whole club. Don’t underestimate the difference he could make on the pitch. It’s admittedly a different situation at Spurs who don’t have the same expectations, but just look at the positivity Postecoglou has injected into Spurs after their recent poor appointments. Look how suddenly different that club is now after just 7 games gone. Not saying they are transformed yet, but boy are things healthier now. Just as one new good player can make a big difference to a team, a top manager can move the earth at a club. And as I said before, I think such people can infect the whole club in a good way and sharpen minds to really start driving the club forwards.
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