Coaches

[sean the sailor]

Some very valid pints mikius.

Going to be interesting to see how this works out for jose.

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[nine nine nine]

Top post from Mikus proving the value of this site you would never read a post of that depth and quality on TT.

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[Shiney]

Sean , I agree Hojbjerg could be the anchor man we need allowing Lo Celso and Ndombele to create rather than defend, going forward I am happy, but our defence has gone from one of the best to one of the worst and we don’t have that many beer vouchers to spend to improve it.

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[Chucky McChuckface]

Turned into a bit of a Jose thread… 🙂

Anyway, I’ with WTPL, the 3 and 3 in the 4-3-3 is looking real good for next season, but D-Fence is looking shakier than Shakira video on fast forward… Hips don’t lie and neither does goal difference. Two full-backs with my Happy Meal please!!

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[nine nine nine]

Jose the gift that keeps on giving to football forums.?

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[Chucky McChuckface]

Bit like those Chelski fans and they’re “we were big before we spunked a billion” comments… 🙂

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[steveosnakeeye]

But wasn’t that Mathew Harding’s money tho before his tragic death
Back when millionaires could make a difference instead of billionaires….

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[nine nine nine]

Hardly!

You need to come to terms with the fact Chucky as both Chelsea and United fans had to that with Jose as your Manager for good or bad he will always get talked about on football forums.

I’ve never seen or heard any Chelsea fan claim they were a big team before Roman’s investment the long in the tooth Chelsea fans know very well the very tough times the Club went through.

The 6 years prior to Roman though felt like it was the best it would ever get.

But then along came Roman!?

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[steveosnakeeye]

And the rest as they is history……

If only we had a billionaire owner… oh wait …?

Arsenal to be renamed “the Arsenal retirement home for ageing stars” ?

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[sean the sailor]

Ye sorry lads, didn’t want this to turn into a jose thread

I would like to see managers spend less money and coach what they have. Spending Millions can’t always be the answer.

So now we have one of the best managers the world has ever seen at a club who are not going to spend 100s of millions.

Can he show the world he doesn’t need much money and turn this bunch of spurs players into a top team???? Let’s wait and see

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[Brian blue]

Sean…would respectfully disagree with you about Liverpools lasts games, No such guarantees in football and I am sure Liverpool players wanted to smash all the records, my guess fatigue kicked in but they still lost the games and conceeded the goals. I applaud Liverpool for the achievement but all I was trying to highlight was there was not such a big difference in goals conceeded. City got off to a slow start and that was down to silly mistakes by individuals, including our top rated keeper, not the defence as a whole. I am not sure what is hardest. keeping clean sheets or scoring over 100 goals….I guess a clean sheet means you do not loose but to keep a high scoring level is hard for any team. However, it is all in the past and hope we both do well next season

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[sean the sailor]

Ye fair points Brian me aul chum

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[Mikus LFC]

Sean, it will still be interesting I agree. But if we examine Poch’s time at Spurs, I guess considering his net spend in his time there, he still achieved a lot. So would another manager with the same conditions and resources Poch had have achieved more? My main feeling with Poch at Spurs was that as organised as they were, difficult to beat, etc, they didn’t quite play off the cuff enough and go for the jugular. In some ways he reminded me of Benitiez of whom a similar criticism may be thrown who was a bit too conservative at times. Now perhaps Poch just didn’t feel he had the luxury to do that. And indeed I think in Jose’s early days at Utd he too played it safe until he was able to bring some other players in and trusted them to play more expansively, though I do think Jose can perhaps eek a bit more out of his teams in terms of mentality. Now if you then compare to Klopp’s early days at Liverpool we were pretty expansive and it got us to a few finals. But we were still limited by the defence. Had Klopp been more defensive it may have helped, but then we would have lost the reason that got us to those early finals so I think all this does show the limitations of managers in their early days at a club when they don’t yet have the players they want.

To compound matters further you then have all the pressure and fear both on the manager and the board who then tend to act irrationally in the transfer market in their attempts to beat their rivals in which just one league position higher can make a huge difference in revenues. It’s no wonder it takes so long for clubs to get all the ingredients right, but one club who are one of the most consistent performers of recent decades is Chelsea. And what have Chelsea always done right? They buy well and act quickly and calmly. And look at Southampton this season, a club who have always found good players. They could have done a Watford and panicked and sacked their manager early on after an appalling start. But they kept a cool head and kept faith and boy did that faith get paid back to them. But cool headed leadership is rare and always will be.

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[sean the sailor]

But Jose’s Utd got worse the more players he brought in mikius. They never played exspensive football. His last 4 months after spending millions, produced some of utds worst football for a while

The jose of old might have got more out of his teams mentality but not anymore. If anything the players turn on him and won’t perform: like his last season at Chelsea and utd.

Everyone could see what klopp was doing and klopp changed his tactics constantly. We played city at anfield 1-0 winjildium and it was our best defensive performance for years. Our problem was defensive lapses and players not following the coaching. The high line was a disaster because of players like Moreno and Lovren. Moreno must have been told the same thing numerous times, they in line with your other 3 defenders but he rarely did.

Fair point on poch. They badly regressed though. Would loch have done a better job then jose at Utd with the money jose had to spend?

Look at utds final year under Fergie. That shows how a good coach can pull out every bit of energy from a team that was decaying . An average side compared to utds legendary Ferguson teams in the past. Ferguson won utd that title

My point is really can jose a man who has had so much money to spend sucked without unlimited funds? Would pep success etc??

Let’s wait and see with jose as he’s the only one we can gage what we are debating againest

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[Mikus LFC]

It wasn’t the best ever Utd side during Fergie’s last season but they still had a pretty solid base of De Gea, Ferdinand and Vidic, and Rooney & Van Persie up top, and every player knew their job and the manager trusted them. But every manager is different and wants different things from their teams so trust takes time to develop and then if you don’t buy particularly well that compounds things further. I agree José never really took off at Utd, but let’s not forget he won the Europa League & League Cup in his first season there, then finished 2nd in the following season. We can debate over who exactly was buying the players but I don’t think it was all down to him and they ultimately didn’t buy well and he clearly never trusted them enough or felt they were good enough to take the next step up.

So it all comes down to whether Spurs can buy well on players Jose can rely on and trust. Will those players cost the earth? That seems to be the conventional thinking on Jose in that you need to spend fortunes on his players and that he can’t develop younger players. But he’s always tended to be at big clubs that do spend a lot on players but that doesn’t mean he can’t. Spurs may have to do a bit of dealing and sell to buy to bring more suitable players in that he wants but in any case all successful teams in this league have to spend big at some point.

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[sean the sailor]

I think it’s a bit of myth that jose doesn’t give young players a chance. He brings at least a few through to the 1st team. He’s already done it at spurs with tatanga.

That’s exactly what I’m saying mikius. Let’s see if jose can do a real job now at spurs with some real limitations

Another manager maybe who falls under the category we are debating , is ancelloti. I thought he did a very good job at Napoli.

Now he’s at a club were it’s going to be very difficult to bring top top players to. Everton do have a few quid but have absolutely wasted over the last few years.
His start has been dreadful. I thought Everton were terrible last year. The performance at anfield in the cup was a shambles

Jose has made a much better impact then Carlo but both need time. Going to be very interesting to see how both fair out. Two really tough jobs for two of the best managers the game has ever seen

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[nine nine nine]

It’s as much down to who you buy as it is to the quality of the Coaching Sean a bit like Chelsea currently Liverpool looked very vulnerable defensively during Klopp’s first two years at the Club and there were lots of calls for a defensive Coach to be bought in but signing Van Dijk and Alisson solved the defensive problems.

Klopp also has a good record on signings getting it more right than wrong which is a big key to a clubs success you also need a bit of good fortune when Robertson was signed I doubt anyone envisaged him becoming the player he has and the TTA came through at about the same time and Liverpool now have a combination of the best attacking full backs in world football which much of Liverpool’s attacking play is based on.

He also inherited a number of key players in Gomez, Coutinho,Henderson, Lallana, Firmino,Milner, Origi etc.

Klopps done a great job though in moulding what he had to who he bought producing the great Liverpool team of today that everyone is now trying to keep up with.

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[sean the sailor]

Agree nine but klopp a coaching has turned vvd into a world class player along with his obvious talent. People thought we were crazy selling couthino and buying vvd.

The manager is so so important in the development of players. How many times have clubs signed top class players and it not worked out. Alison and vvd were good players when signed. They are world class now and the coaching has helped

Look at how Liverpool defend now. Look at how we defend set plays. That has took years of coaching to perfect that. It’s taken vvd to come into probarbky organise it. Alison allows to play so high as he sweeps. Two key signings but it was never about klopp not being able to get a team to defend right. The players he had like Lovren and Moreno could not implement his ideas of defending high and staying in line with each other.

Klopp has spent money. Used it very very wisely and I think the reason he has got more right then wrong is because of him. The way he manages and develops players.
Now klopp is finished spending really big for a bit. Now he’s coaching what he has as he had spent enough in my opinion. The net spend is so low, it makes the league achievements that bit more special

Again my point is, after a few years spending millions when do you stop
And say I’ll work with this squad I’ve spent 500m on . Not buy another player for 60m when another had failed after one season

I totally agree it’s a combination but coaching is such a huge part of it.

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[steveosnakeeye]

Isn’t this meant to be a simple game played since childhood?

Are we not over complicating things?

Players need to take much more responsibility who ever is coaching them

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[nine nine nine]

Sean, I think VVD has improved at Liverpool but that’s probably as much to do with playing with players who are at a much higher level than Southampton anything else.

At the time Liverpool didn’t really have any option but to sell Coutinho to Barca he wanted to go and it was a great pricez as Klopp said at the time it was with great reluctance. As I remember Liverpool fans weren’t happy with Coutinho going to Barca.

It was a transfer that worked very well for Liverpool as it gave them the funds to sign both VVD and Alisson but it wasn’t by design imo. Fortunately for Liverpool it worked out famously and the rest as they say is history

Let’s not forget the criticism that Klopp was under because of Liverpool’s failings in defence prior to signing both Alisson and VVD and the calls for a defensive Coach by Liverpool fans but those two signings at circa £150m made all the difference.

It’s a combination of the both in terms of Coaching and buying the right players plus a sprinkling of a little bit of good fortune that you always need on buying and selling players.

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