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“Who is this Banjo you speak off? Would love to met him, he (or she!) seems to have legendary status around, almost as famous as the nine armed octupus from Osaka. ”
Legendary? not quite….”she” was a likeable chump residing in Finland with a secret desire to live in Malmo who reckoned herself an author and is a spud loving chicken π
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You keep talking about him pal, I guess he/she has put some fizz in your beanzzz… π
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Mikus you do have a point that the presence of VAR currently is a contributory factor. I think even the most biased Utd fan must think it wasnt a penalty. The more I watch it back in real-time the less it looks like deliberate handball. The rule needs looking at. If not talented and skillful players will be aiming for a defenders arm rather than the goal.
Just watched it again. The VAR decision maker was imo wrong. It is a much worse decision than the one given against us in Scalke.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/rules_and_equipment/4524354.stm
Reading this as well confirms my belief.
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I think it’s the rule that needs looking at more than anything else. Most referees seem to be in agreement that it was a pen whereas most pundits (ex-pros) seem to say the opposite. There’s a clear conflict there that should raise questions about the rule itself. I certainly wouldn’t have moaned had we not been given it but if that’s the rule, then that’s the rule. I think most would be in favour of a review of the rule though as we don’t want to see endless amounts of pens like that.
It’s ridiculous though to suggest Utd were lucky to go through. Due to poor refereeing, we played 11 men in the first leg when their goalscorer should have been sent off. So, all being fair, we wouldn’t have had such an uphill task to begin with had everything been given correct. We then got a penalty which, seemingly by the letter of the law, was correct. Questionable, sure, but correct nonetheless.
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Ed, the key part of the rule so far as I understand is (via https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47471380).
β…if he (the defender) is looking to block a cross or a shot on goal and the player is trying to spread his body then it is a handball.”
Ifab chief David Elleray explained: “If the arms are extended beyond that (natural) silhouette then the body is being made unnaturally bigger, with the purpose of it being a bigger barrier to the opponent or the ball.β
So the referee has deduced the player did make his body unfairly bigger when blocking the shot but has failed to account for the fact a player will slightly raise their arms when jumping to help with their balance. So surely that would still mean the βnatural silhouetteβ of the player was maintained because when you jump your natural silhouette will change slightly. It is that that the referee did not account for. Would the ref have been severely criticised by his superiors had he not given the penalty under the current rule? Not convinced. As I say I think VAR helps promote tunnel vision into a refβs mind – i.e. all he sees is the ball hitting the slightly outstretched arm and then applies the law but without the bigger picture/context.
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Seemingly according to Clattenburg there are two different chains of thoughts in this area with UEFA’s being the most extreme hence the PSG penalty last night and the Otamendi penalty last week in the CL.
According to Clattenburg that wouldn’t have been considered a penalty in the PL and Dermot Gallagher said on Sky today that in his opinion it wasn’t a pen.
This needs to be sorted out the rules have to be the rules but everyone needs to understand what those rules are and they have to be consistently applied no matter where.
Really harsh decision imo.
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Very harsh decision indeed and it was not a pen,imho.
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Oh don’t get me wrong. I’d be absolutely fuming if it was against us and would no doubt feel hard done by, but it’s certainly not universally accepted that it was an incorrect decision by the letter of the law, whether or not people agree with the law in question.
As I said, we can count ourselves fortunate to have got that questionable decision which saw us through but on the whole, both sides were on the end of unlucky decisions which could have swung the tie. Kimpembe staying on in the first leg was an atrocious decision, and that one didn’t even need 100s of replays to form an opinion! ?
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“but itβs certainly not universally accepted that it was an incorrect decision by the letter of the law, whether or not people agree with the law in question.”
That’s the point though Ed the laws of the game have to be clear to all and we can’t have different interpretations according to the competition being played.
What’s a penalty in the CL on a Wednesday night also has to be a penalty in the Arsenal v United PL game on Sunday but seemingly it won’t be. That level of discrepancy is not only confusing but plain wrong.
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you can F off with that 999 i dont want one of those against us on Sunday thanks! lol
they have had too much “help” of late, time to play by the rules! we are bad enough it shouldnt matter!_____________________________
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Nine, tbf I think there are always going to be grey areas where different refs interpret things differently – what you really want from a ref is one that looks at everything in context and from experience/reality and judges accordingly. What you donβt want is a referee focussed solely on the literal theoretical part of the law and incident and applying it directly. And VAR promotes such behaviour particularly because things always look worse in slow mo.
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That’s it Mikus. The only way to take opinion out of the equation is to say every single handball in the box is a pen, and that would be horrible. Anything remotely deviating from that is never going to be 100% consistent because people have different opinions even after hundreds of replays. So we either accept inconsistency or we accept 100% consistency whereby opinion is taken away and every single handball, accidental or not in the box is a pen. There is no in-between.
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Mikus, I’m not talking about a different interpretation between two different Refs though mate allegedly the UEFA Refs have been told to give these as handballs whilst currently PL Refs haven’t.
I also understand that there will be a rule change from June 1st where all ball to hand incidents will be considered handball.
Currently there seems a total lack of clarity from the rule makers.
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Why wasnt Roma given a pen last night? And why was Ajax goal allowed to stand when the ball was clearly out?
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Nine, but look at my post at the top of the page – a ref could legitimately not have given that penalty because the defenders arms were still in a natural position, though the rule could perhaps still be better written. If the ball to hand rule comes in that will be ridiculous.
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Not according to the brief to the UEFA Refs mate according to Clattenburg. And seemingly from June 1st that will be the rule.
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Well Clattenburg, because he disagrees with the decision last night, is most probably blaming the ruling to flag it up and influence change. Iβm not saying the ruling didnβt have a part to play, but I still think a ref could still have interpreted it differently. Clattenburg for example said the defenders arm was in an unnatural position – well it clearly was in a natural position when he jumped and his arm still stayed pretty close to his side.
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What most seem to agree on is that it is the interpretation and rule at fault not VAR.
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