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From my own perspective, I think this topic may have reached it’s own conclusion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter and I know we all have slightly different stances on the various aspects.
I definitely consider this discussion to have been useful for me, in helping me to form my opinion. The back and forth but also the emergence of the incriminating emails were key.
Innocent until proven guilty. When found guilty, they must now work to find themselves innocent and with the smoking gun emails, I just don’t see how that’s possible. A technicality does not equate to innocent for me, so in lieu of an angle or situation that I can’t currently visualize, I have decided to bang my own internal gavel and declare City as being cheating scum.
Nine is absolutely going to LOVE this but Nine, you are free to believe otherwise and I only wish you held this mentality with regards to Liverpool’s title challenge not being over in December 😛
I think I’ve gotten everything I can from this though, unless people want to try and think of ways where City could genuinely be innocent… I won’t hold my breath!
That’s my mind made up. I’ll give proceedings a chance to change it, of course but ya 😉
cheers boys o7
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Mak, the city lads have put their points across very well and do have you and others.
I really can’t see anything major happening to city. The ceo has come out and said they have done wrong at all so it’s a big stance to say considering what’s been leaked but I’ll give ciry the benefit of the doubt now until it all comes out
A few of Surrey blues and giblues comments have made me look at it another way.
Still as I’ve said I’m not really to concerned what happens.
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Seaney Sean, good stance matey and healthier forthe soul 😉 (reminds me anyone remember a TV show called “seans Show”? irish comedian…..i digress!
yeah feel the same mate, if they have done wrong by the letter of the law so be it, i dont agree with the law in the fitrst place at least the reasons given for it which are fake and spurious, there are honestly far worst things that happen in football IMHO and this type of thing has been done for years all be it under different rules that allowed the big clubs to be what they now are
the whole systema nd indivdual FA’s are corrupt or stupid in their own ways
cant wait to get back to some football!
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The FFP rules are UEFA’s own rules and City have been charged, prosecuted, and found guilty by UEFA with UEFA being the Prosecutor, Judge and Jury. When the case goes to CAS it will be the first time that the case will be judged impartially.
Other than helping fund the vast legal fees that’s the only area that City’s money will talk CAS will judge the case completely impartially.
Seemingly there are only 4 outcomes:
All the charges are upheld by CAS and the two year CL ban and fine sticks.
City’s Lawyers argue that the emails are inadmissible CAS agree and the case is thrown out due to a lack of any other compelling evidence against City this would leave City still in the CL but with a shadow hanging over them.
On hearing all the evidence CAS reduce the punishment on City by finding them not guilty of all charges and or confirming that in their belief the punishment was too severe both have happened with other appeals to CAS by top Clubs.
City are cleared of all charges which does currently seem unlikely but none of us have access to the evidence City might present.
There is imo something very spooky about the alleged inflated sponsorship from Etihad Airways why would City agree to a sponsorship fee of £8m which vastly undervalues the shirt sponsorship of a major Club like City and £60m is the much more likely figure for such a sponsorship.
All will be revealed when the case goes to CAS.
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didn’t work…
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One other outcome is possible and that is CAS won’t be able to hear the City case and deliver their judgement in time for preparation for the 2020/21 CL Season.
Typically CAS hear appeals 6 to 12 months down the line and have a considerable backlog from all Sports if such a situation occurs City would almost certainly request CAS to suspend the judgement and punishment handed to them by UEFA.
It would then be up to CAS to decide whether they will suspend City’s punishment in all likelihood they will which would mean that any banning of City from the CL would be suspended until the 21/22 Season.
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That’s very true alright Nine. I hope they can avoid this because it’s like they are softening the blow and actually manipulating the punishment by appealing.
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Nine..just to drop in about your question on Etihad Airways. The airline business is in a bust or boom scenario. Etihad in the last few years have made huge losses The 8 m was indeed small by to days standards but then we do not know how much they paid for the Ground naming rights although I think that will be recorded somewhere
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Yes I understand that Brian but why would City agree to a shirt sponsorship that was so commercially attractive for just £8m when they could have sold it for a lot lot more money elsewhere without any problem.
The Etihad Airways sponsorship being baulked up to £60m is one of the most damaging claims against City yet £60m seems about right to me given that currently a lot less successful club in Manchester has sold their shirt sponsorship for more than £60m.
It doesn’t hang together for me especially as City could have easily sold their shirt sponsorship for £60m and not be facing such damaging claims. I’m sure though all will be revealed.
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Success means nothing when it comes to shirt sponsorship though, unless you’re talking about a team winning and increasing their market-share.
Utd are less successful, currently but you can’t measure 2012 City to Utd of any time. City’s fanbase at the time wouldn’t have been anything on Utd.
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Mak in fairness city have had huge support over the years. Utd have more fans because they were more successful over the years and they are one of the biggest clubs in the world
City were getting 25k + at Maine road when in the 3rd Tiet of English football
That’s why I don’t begrudge city or Chelsea fans their success. These clubs have seen some really bad times. Relegation etc while seeing their rivals utd and arsenal win trophies in late 80s and early 90s
The likes of nine, Chelsea man, Brian, Surrey, giblues and evening adlab ? have been there through the bad times
They never thought they would see their club win the pl. nine and all his family , kids and grandkids are big Chelsea fans and they all got to see Chelsea win big trophies together. That’s special
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Sean, I’ve been going to the Bridge since I was in short pants and I’ve seen the good the bad and the ugly. Winning the FA Cup at Old Trafford standing in the Stretford End with the Chelsea hordes will always be the greatest night of my life bar marrying my Wife and the birth of my son’s.
But returning to Wembley with both my son’s and their Grandad to see Chelsea lift the FA Cup again in 1997 was the most special of days three generations of us together when their Grandad had said in 1994 when we were there for the United Final that he wouldn’t see Chelsea win the Cup again in his lifetime sadly he died before he saw Chelsea achieve the impossible dream of winning the League title.
And now his Great Grandsons follow the same path and have that great love of football that my Dad passed on to me and I have the joy of watching them both play the beautiful game and they are both better players than any of us were.
Brian and others will have similar tales to tell and that’s why despite acknowledging that justice has to be done I don’t like to see the rush to try and bury City these Clubs of ours have all played a special part in our lives and are often woven in to our families histories and are special to us all. Cheers 9’s
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Ya, City have had a decent local following but when it comes to big money deals for shirt supporters, it’s not like they would have had 200m+ supporters globally. Until they really got going, they wouldn’t have had the market to draw in a big deal. I’m not knocking them, it’s just an explanation for why they couldn’t get 60m from anyone legit, when Utd could have, or close enough anyway.
I can’t remember when Utd got their last big deal but this market has been on a sharp curve upwards over the years.
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The point I was making Mak was that City’s shirt sponsorship was worth way more than the alleged £8m that Etihad Airways allegedly paid and being the most successful team in England City’s worldwide coverage on TV meant City could have got way way more than that on the open market. It’s a very peculiar one imo and it probably won’t be clarified until the Case has been heard by CAS.
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I get your point Nine. I don’t think you’re completely wrong or anything. I just think it’s worth noting the above and also how sponsorship money is generally on an upward trend. Since we’re talking about 2012 and not now, it’s going to have an effect… Especially for Pre-Pep City.
Also, I don’t imagine the funneling of the deal came for free for one. They’d have sweetened the deal for them. How much of the 60m would it be worth? I couldn’t make anything more than a rough guess. 8m is low alright though but perhaps it was only worth 30m?
Here is Liverpool sponsorship income from Standard Chartered (below) , over the years. Now, we didn’t have any PL title wins to our name, so that’s a lift from City’s perspective but in Liverpools credit, they were and probably still are (in many ways anyway) a bigger brand. I am of course talking about global fanbase size and not City’s juiced up finances. Let’s not use their juiced up finances in this part of the discussion if we can help it.
Looking at the kinda measly income we’ve had, you get to form a picture of 60m actually being grossly inflated.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/254567/liverpool-fc-revenue-from-kit-sponsorship/
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Just read that in 2018 when Liverpool extended their contract with Standard Chartered for 40m/season, both Arsenal and Chelsea were said to be on very similar money.
Kinda depressing that we signed a 4 year deal then too cause being World, European and soon to be PL champions, with potential records all over, I bet that would go up a bit. Oh well.
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The £60m also includes the sponsorship of the Stadium and the training ground and surrounding areas so £60m doesn’t seem grossly over inflated to me Mak at all on that basis seems pretty much in line actually but CAS will be the Judges. It’s certainly worth a lot more than £8m though.
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Ah I didn’t realise it was for the stadium name also. I don’t know what the stadium naming rights might be worth but would it be worth 20m a season maybe? I can’t be arsed to look up what arsenal got but I remember thinking it was something substantial like that.
That does make things sound kinda odd now alright. As you say, we can wait and hopefully see. I mean we might never hear the details. Both CAS and City can decide if they want an open trial though… but as I said before, I doubt it will happen.
shame it’ll take bloody months.
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“Manchester City’s appeal against their two-year ban from European club competition has been registered by the Court of Arbitration for Sport.” BBC Football.
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