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PS OJ was guilty.
How do we know City are?
We dont as yet. Might be but we dont know for sure.
FFP? Introduced to stop heavy debt wasnt it?_____________________________
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Adders, cyber chum… have you actually read the e-mails?
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Adlab, you’ve been going on about how City could get off based on a technicality. That is not the kind of thought process of a person who thinks their club is innocent.
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“Does anybody here trust UEFA?”
You want to go off of facts when it’s City but you’re ok to suggest that UEFA are somehow up to something here, with absolutely ZERO evidence to suggest so.
I’ll tell you who I don’t trust, Man City and their owners. I was already incredibly suspicious of them before now and these emails are pretty damning. I can’t see how City will get away with this other than getting off like O.J. Now, we can wait and see because you never know but I will say this, I’ll be bloody stunned if they are cleared of wrong-doing without there being some nonsense reason for it.
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As I just said above, the actual evidence is pretty damning on the very simple notion of βdid City do it or not?β.
That’s it Chucky and everything else is a load of rubbish as far as I’m concerned. You know, I can’t promise that I wouldn’t be as blinkered as many of the City fans. Now before people harp on about “we don’t know anything for certain yet”, please just wisht. I’ve read this a billion times and I’m aware of it. Unlike other situations though, we do have some very solid evidence to go from. We have past pattern behaviour also, as well as hearing about the vast sums coming in after FFP was introduced. We’ve seen the incredible spending for a club that very often doesn’t even fill their stadium, rarely gets far in the CL and actually didn’t have a very strong marketing income until the owners really got spending… I think this is enough to warrant all discussion that we’ve seen so far and more.
I have to ask though, in the hypothetical scenario where City’s ban is upheld (let’s remember that although they deserve an appeal, they have been found guilty), what do people think should happen to the title wins during an influenced period?
Personally, I would break from a lot of the talk out there that we should leave it as it is, as we didn’t actually win the titles in the season’s where we came second. I can understand this mindset to a point but I am definitely of the belief that I’d want us awarded them. If the above scenario plays out then it would mean that we were the best non-cheating team in X seasons and just like this season, should be awarded the PL title.
Now, if City show up with actual proof of innocence and not some bloody rubbish then I’ll hold my hands up and say “grand lads, congrats on clearing your name”, or words to that effect. I’m not here to loot your silverwear but I remember missing out by nothing 2 times and if it turns out that we were robbed, you bet your bottom I’ll want it back.
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With regards to points/trophies and whatnot, I say just leave it as it is. Too much fall out if you start changing things with a simple points deduction etc…
I mean, a simple points deduction will simply benefit the team that was in 2nd and nothing else. If anything, all games should be declared null and void (I know, never going to happen!) and re-set the table based on that. Sure LiVARberoOol-pool etc… will most likely benefit at the top end of the table but not much help to those “relegated” at the time.
All 19 teams played City every season, so Cities “cheating” affected everybody. Look at the “mess” created with the Spamboys and the two Argies some years back…
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If the only evidence is the e mails then City have a problem and even if City’s Lawyers were to argue as is likely that the e mails are inadmissable and they manage to overturn the ruling based on that it would still leave a shadow hanging over City.
Soriano claimed yesterday that City are innocent of all allegations and the evidence will be presented to CAS to prove that so presumably City have evidence that none of us have been privy to and will come out when the case reaches CAS.
The allegation about the Etihad Airways sponsorship money being baulked up from Β£8m to Β£60m is an odd one why would City agree a shirt sponsorship for Β£8m which is so clearly undervalued v shirt sponsorship at other Clubs when they could have got at least 5 of 6 times that on the open market?
Soriano said “We went to CAS mid-process because it was clear to us that we were not having a fair process and we were concerned. We were specifically concerned about the leaks, the constant leak of information. CAS said there was merit in our complaint, they said that the leaks were ‘worrisome’ and they said they would judge it when process has finished. The process has finished now, we are going to CAS again.”
If City are guilty of what is in the leaked e mails the ban will be upheld and rightly so but I suspect there is more to come out and the picture won’t become clearer until this case is put before CAS.
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Chucky, with regards City breaking PL FFP rules they are a lot less stringent than the UEFA rules and even reversing out the Etihad Airways baulked up sponsorship money for instance which is a peculiar one anyway if that is indeed proven to be true City may well still fall within the PL’s FFP rules.
But nothing will happen re PL FFP rules being broken if they have been until the outcome of the CAS hearing.
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You only have to read the emails,
Utter bollocks if people claim they can be read out of context – as they are whole documents and self explanatory
The only chance city have (of avoiding a ban) is that they escape by way of a technicality about how the emails were obtained – but we will all still know they are cheats.
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Puppy, regarding your post at 8:14, this is the bit that I really don’t understand… we’ve seen the e-mails, we can all read, I really can’t figure what City have up their selves with regards to being “innocent” i.e. proving the e-mails are “wrong”… makes no sense. Personally, I can’t wait to hear it.
Let us not forget, regardless of how “corrupt” UEFA might be (cough, we all know that one!), they also have pitbulls for lawyers to protect their golden goose. They’re hardly going to say “guilty” if they really didn’t think the “charges” were going to stick. They’ve got way more to lose than City do in the long run, this all gets thrown out and then the precedent has been set. Every man and his club would be able to do exactly the same thing…
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if i go to court for something can i have 999 on the jury, the rest of you can fuck right off π
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Clerk: “Mr. Foreman, have the jury reached a verdict?”
Puppy: “Yes, we have.”
Clerk: “And are the defendants guilty or not guilty?
Puppy: “Well, that depends on the metaphorical meaning of guilty or not guilty, as the defendants are undoubtedly connected to the case, but can anybody really be in a position to judge the true intentions, as no member of they jury was in close proximity at the time of the deeds were alleged to have taken place, if indeed if they did take place, despite the evidence to the contrary. In fact, are we really here in this courtroom, we only have our own interpretation of our own surroundings, we could in fact be on a beach chasing bouncy balls and licking our own Arsenal’s, this could all be a figment of our individual imagination. I put it to you, Mr. Clerk, are any of us truly guilty of existing, and if so, are we remotely responsible for our actions?”
π
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Clerk: βMr. Foreman, have the jury reached a verdict?β
Nancy: βYes, we have.β
Clerk: βi thought so but the trial hasnt actually started yet, so maybe you should wait and see”
Nancy: “i know all i need to know from many viable and reliable sources, i dont think we need a trial”
Clerk: “Twat”
Nancy: Guilty your honour_____________________________
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Clerk: “Mr. Foreman, have the jury reached a verdict?”
Goosey: “Yes, we have.”
Clerk: “And are the defendents guilty or not guilty?”
Goosey: “We blame in on Banjo and his naughty sisters.”_____________________________
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Oh dear, it’s like Groundhog Day on here and the message is clear – City is guilty even if it’s found innocent. That’s to be expected from the tribalist nature of football; its going to be hard to change that and of course forums like this have reinforced it. Better (just!) to sit round in the pub for the usual robust discussion, but rows about whether it was right to pay Β£55,000 for Denis Law are just a distant memory!
However, it matters to me that the truth in this case – whatever the consequential impact on the game – is the truth and is widely accepted. I think we should all sign up to that principle because one day it could be your club that’s dealing with material allegations of wrongdoing and potentially placed in a very awkward position._____________________________
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lost? im pretty sure he cant and just makes it up as he goes along anyway π
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Surrey Blue, if you want to have a read of the email and then tell us how City are innocent, I’m all ears. Seriously. Instead of this melodramatic stream of consciousness, maybe you want to explain how it’s even possible that City are innocent.
Chucky, that was a fair point regards how City’s results went again everyone but where you deduct 12 points, everyone gets 12 points closer and that’s just how it works out. You just can’t retro-actively change who is relegated and nobody would expect that but you can hand the title to the team most deserving of it. It’s still not perfect but it’s in my opinion, closer to being a real season than before.
I know one thing for sure, is that if they are found guilty again and a points reduction is decided, Liverpool better not get too bloody proud and they damn well better accept the trophy. It’s not a gift in that scenario, it’s stolen property being returned.
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Come on Surrey, rather than waving Trumpish style denials, where is even a whiff of logic or evidence that the e-mails aren’t “real”? Sure, City may argue their way out of this on a technicality, but the e-mails are pretty damning, and I very much doubt anybody who has read the e-mails are going to suddenly decide City are innocent based on Cassie’s findings if they kick the case out on a technicality. I certainly won’t.
Come on cyber chum, rather than just claiming innocence (and ignoring the fact they have already been found guilty as charged by one authority), give us an actual and vaguely logical reason why City are innocent so we can continue to debate the matter?
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Stevo, apologies I deleted my previous post.Fortunately the majority on here won’t sit in judgement of this case otherwise City could save themselves the air fares to Switzerland.?
When I sat on a Jury we were instructed by the Judge to weigh all the evidence from both the defence and the prosecution and on completion of that giving of evidence and the summing ups discuss it all fully in the Jury Room before coming to any verdict as to whether the defendants were guilty or innocent. I don’t think you can pronounce anyone guilty until all the evidence has been heard and fully considered by an impartial Court.
CAS may well find City guilty once they’ve heard and considered all the evidence but we won’t know the true outcome of this case until then.
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Mak-You surely dont take that kid,adlab for serious,surely? He says he is 71 but the stuff that is written from him points to an 15-16-year-old.
ps;If Liberoools get the trophy/s from 2014[2019] awarded to em,plus they are going win this season[won it already],that means Liberoools have more titles than Utd,right?
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