Another one bites the dust- Ten Hag sacked

[Nike19]

Players now probably are loosened, but know they have to compete for their places.

Maybe give Van Nistelrooy a chance.

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[Nike19]

Age-wise if there is a classification as young; maybe we’re looking at 39-42. Jose was about that age when he joined Chelsea back in 2004, but I’m alluding to probably somebody like a Brendan Rodgers. He really worked wonders with Sturridge, Sterling and Suarez and almost won us the title, but lacked a Plan B and a Pragmatic approach when needed to close off certain opposition.

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[Editor]

There seems to only ever be 2 camps. You’re either on the side of blaming all the managers. It’s all their fault. Or you’re on the side of the managers being blameless and the fault lying with the players. Both can be true. I keep hearing how Utd have tried so many managers and how they need to start blaming the players. If the managers aren’t a big part of the problem, why have none of the managers since Ferguson gone on to top jobs? Not one has proved Utd were wrong to get rid of them. We are however starting to see examples of players maybe showing that they weren’t the problem at Utd. McTominay springs to mind. The young LB at Benfica another. Sancho potentially another.

The club isn’t the mess it’s made out to be. Arsenal were in an absolute state before Arteta came in. Barcelona before Flick. A good manager who the players believe in has a huge impact on player morale and performance. The academy are flying. Eased to a U18 PL win last season and currently on a 100% record so far hammering everyone in the age group. We’re finally making top class appointments around the manager. That’s not to say they won’t get things wrong. They may be wrong on Amorim but the only thing they can do is give him the best possible chance to succeed.

I’m yet to hear a good alternative to him who was available. Everyone is an expert on the problem but nobody is able to offer an idea of a solution.

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[Mikus LFC]

It all starts with the manager. They’re still the most important person at a club and they dictate the direction of the club – even if other departments aren’t working, they get them working (unless there’s strong politics at play). The reason I bang on about appointing a bigger name is because you need that authority to manage big players, make tough decisions and handle expectations. They tend to hit the ground running because of their charisma, authority and communication skills. If players aren’t performing they freeze them out and move them on. As for alternatives, Tuchel was available. Flick was available, now flying high with Barca. Conte went to Napoli in the summer, they’re now flying high.

Amorim may work out but given that it’s hard to measure him in the weaker European league, you can onky look at his record in the European cups, which may look reasonable but I don’t think is extraordinary. Mourinho won the CL with Porto. And everyone likes to point to Ferguson before Utd being perhaps not proven yet, but he won a European trophy with Aberdeen which was extraordinary. I think you have to have that authority of proven extraordinary success to manage Utd. But they seem hellbent on finding someone to develop players and do things the right way, whatever that means.

A big club needs a big manager. It really is as simple as that.

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[sean the sailor]

But ed utd fans were playing the players as we were all told eth was a world class coach cause we questioned him

You did a u- turn about tuchel a few minths ago when he was heavily linked with utd and he was the best option.

Whose top class? Wilcox? Ashworth? You are defending the spending of 180m and using ugarte as example of him being a club signing and not eth? Its bizarre some the stuff fabs are coming up with and even having a go at slot !

The new ceo? As soon as eth is gone its sll his fault when utd was debated he was world class. You said the exact same thing abiut wth? Who else was there. He was the wrong appointment and the doubters were proved right.

Slot and amirom were totally under whelming appointments. Big time.

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[Editor]

A big club needs a big manager. It really is as simple as that.

It sounds incredibly simple Mikus. Why then did both Chelsea and Bayern sack Tuchel and what makes you think he wouldn’t have done what he’s done everywhere he’s been and fallen out with everyone?

I’m amazed that if it’s a simple as just appointing one of these journeymen, why none of them were wanted by Liverpool fans when Klopp went. You’re a big club too who aren’t afraid to spend money when the need arises.

With the benefit of hindsight, Flick seems like one that got away but it’s worth remembering that his stock had fallen significantly after the Germany debacle. Barca gambled and it paid off but it took a lot of bravery to appoint him after what was a disastrous spell in charge of Germany.

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[Editor]

A lot of questions there Sean. When did I defend the spending of £180mil? Happy to be proven wrong but can’t remember defending that. What is there to defend anyway. Not sure what you mean. Why would I want to defend us spending money?

I did a uturn about Tuchel? In what sense? I didn’t want him but came to the conclusion that he was probably the best of a bad bunch. I stand by that.

The doubters were proved right about Eth? I wanted Eth. Would never deny that. I still think it was the right appointment. That it ultimately ended badly doesn’t mean it was the wrong choice. The alternative was Poch who was also sacked. Who’s to say that would have gone any better? As I wrote above, you have to take a gamble at times like Barca did with a fallen Flick. Who wouldn’t be a gamble? Tell me who you’d have gone for then? I’m not sure what you want me to say?! 😅. Should I be saying this is another terrible choice and it will be awful? I’ll get behind the manager as I do every manager.

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[Editor]

You are defending the spending of 180m and using ugarte as example of him being a club signing and not eth?

didn’t really follow this part Sean. What part do you disagree with? The club have rightly moved to buying players for the club instead of for the manager.

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[CM]

Klopp arrived at Liverpool and instantly got rid of Sakho(best cb for Liverpool at the time), he also got rid of Ings. Both apparently had a poor attitude. Pep comes in and gets rid of Yaya Toure and gave Aguero a ultimatum. Did the players feel their mates were being disrespected?

Ten Hag comes in, gets rid of Ronaldo, who he found disruptive and Sancho, who he gave numerous chances to. Yet the players turn against him. Problem at United was Woodward allowed players get their way. He fucking gave Pogba a new contract, after Pogba told him he wanted to leave and it wasn’t working out.

It is easy to blame the manager, when the problem layed deeper than that. Ten Hag lost control long before the new partial owners came in. That was down to how the previous regime did things.

Jose and Van Gaal were big name managers, how did they turn out.

Not sure why some fans are suggesting some managers for United, when they did not once call for the same managers when their manager left.

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[Editor]

Re Ugarte, Sean, I assume you meant the fact that I hit back at Mikus who suggested we’d spent £180mil on players for Ten Hag with me saying that we’d actually signed players for the club rather than the manager. That’s a pretty obvious conclusion to come to. There was no recruitment team before the summer. It was John Murtough and Ten Hag. That’s about it. Since then, there’s been a shift to buying players for the club rather than for the manager. I don’t see what’s to question about that. It’s a pretty standard way of working nowadays. You don’t bring in recruitment and talent specialists and then let the manager dictate the budget. He’ll have a say but he won’t make the call. I’m not sure what the point is with this that you’re questioning.

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[Mikus LFC]

Just a general reply to the above.

I think Pep & Klopp both hit the ground running so it quickly gave them authority at the club. Ten Hag didn’t so he struggled to build a mentality in the dressing room. I’ll grant you he didn’t have the structure around him to help him, but he took the job. He should have known what he was walking into. Jose & Van Gaal weren’t out of this world, but they were still the best Utd had in the last 10 years.

As for the comparison to Liverpool, we have a much tighter budget and there was no immediate expectation to win the big trophies. At Liverpool it’s about exceeding expectations with what you have vs having a bigger budget to win sooner (as you would expect at such a club) which I think is a very different environment.

Amorim does seem quite charismatic so you would immediately expect him to be an improvement on Ten Hag. It’s how he handles a club like Man Utd vs Sporting Lisbon. I’m also to be convinced of his quality at a higher level given his less extraordinary European record. OK, Slot wasn’t extraordinary there either at Feyenoord, though I think he still took a team that wasn’t worth a lot to a European final.

As for Tuchel, yes I hear about the fallouts but he does deliver success. Even if he only lasted 2 or 3 years, better that than all these years with unextraordinary managers delivering very little.

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[Editor]

I think Pep & Klopp both hit the ground running so it quickly gave them authority at the club. Ten Hag didn’t so he struggled to build a mentality in the dressing room.

Klopp hit the ground running?! He finished 8th in the league. Ten Hag finished 3rd and won a cup… 😁

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[CM]

Pep also came 3rd his 1st season, on 78 points. Suffered some embarrassing defeats too, after spending close to £200m, taking over a side which already had Kompany, Fernandinho, Silva, De Bruyne, Sterling, Aguero. Trophyless too.

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[Mikus LFC]

Klopp got to two cup finals in his first season. And he had an immediate effect on a poor side. Pep admittedly took a bit of time to coach his style but you could see the effect he was having. And both got better and better. Both clearly had a galvanising effect on their dressing rooms. Ten Hag didn’t and went from 3rd to 8th to currently 14th. Also I do think it helped him in his first season that Chelsea & Liverpool had off seasons from their previous ones. And I don’t think they played particularly brilliantly that first season.

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[Nike19]

Thread looks like it’s spiralling a bit out of control and ETH being compared to one of the best managers Liverpool have ever had.

That Europa Final was dead close back in 2016. Wish Klopp and Pool did win that. He would have completed the full-set under his reign.

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[CM]

Mikus-

Liverpool were close to winning the league title 15 months prior to when Klopp came. Liverpool were heading the right direction off the pitch with the right structure in place, they just needed the right manager to lead them there which they found.

When Ten Hag came in United needed another rebuild. The club suffered its worst point total in years and looked lost with no direction. The same was said when Van Gaal arrived, when Ole arrived and when Jose arrived. If the same things keeps repeating itself under different managers, you then question whether it is actually the manager. The players who let the previous managers down were still there when Ten Hag arrived. Whilst Pep and Klopp had the freedom to let go of such players, Ten Hag didn’t. Coutinho would still be at Manchester United earning 800k a week if he played for the club. The club would have caved in to Sterlings demands and so on. No player was bigger than the manager or club(This is what United once were under Ferguson), now players are bigger than the club. Once you let that stink the place up, you’re in trouble.

Whoever came in was not only up against the ego driven players who think they are better than what they are, they were also up against a commercial driven structure. Selling shirts and making money mattered more than on field success.

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[sean the sailor]

At the end of the day, amiron has won one league and cup in his homeland and is now taking over probably the biggest club in the world.

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[sean the sailor]

Cm, your arguing against what ed is saying but with mikuus.

Ed says its the management but you say its the players

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[CM]

Apologies for the misunderstanding Sean..

I am saying it is both. The management have allowed the players get their way for so long, which has resulted in the players choosing when to turn up. Players are pretty much playing for themselves, someone in management should have sided with the manager and clamped down on this.

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[sean the sailor]

Ah all good cm and ed chum

Lets see what happens. All about opinions.

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[Author]

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