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Lots of time has passed since the departure of a certain Mr Ferguson;
It was 12 years on the 23rd of October (and I remember vividly that day on Sky Sports of that Sunday) Manchester United 1 Manchester City 6 at Old Trafford; seeing new blood from the blue in David Silva, Edin Dzeko, Sergio Aguero and the controversial Mario Balotelli.
The Man United team back then you would say in realism needed reviewing in players coming up to their shelf life and the unavoidable prospect of rebuilding.
Ferguson pulled off a Master Stroke of a quick fix signing Robin Van Persie in August 2012, winning a Record Title Number 20 in 2013 and guess what? At the age of 73, 26 years of service finally comes to an end as The Great Man himself calls Time.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen this with any football club in Living memory of such long service and with that, the achievement of such decoration of Trophies.
Every Manager since then has at some point found a Tough Point. There’s so much say first and foremost of Money, contracts, terms-conditions.
I’ll tell you first hand United fans, you think Liverpool have got it good?
If we don’t underpin a combination of tying down our key figurehead players and signing/raising potentials, plus splashing out in risk of a Ready-Made or a B-Grade that we can make into somebody Special, then Liverpool too will be floundering.
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It will come to a time when certain players will need to be replaced and Slot will want to have a say. The players he has taken on were developed by Klopp and took years to bring together. Let’s see how Slot does when he brings his own players in. United needed a rebuild and Ten Hag walked in to a toxic culture, Liverpool didn’t and had a settled side.
If Amorim got control over transfers, he would be Liverpool manager today. Slot was thought about after. Liverpool just took on a yes man.
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Ten Hag had power to make his own transfers and that didnt work too well! Donβt think I can ever remember a manager who made so many transfer cock-ups.
Youβre not wrong Threeps. In hindsight, Ten Hag was set up to fail because he was brought in as a head coach with no top recruitment team around him and no elite director of football. Essentially no football knowledge at all at board level. Yet he was given the keys to the transfer budget. Modern day managers arenβt cut out for that. Even Klopp didnβt want Salah at Liverpool. Without the structure around him at Liverpool, who knows what he would have achieved. Same goes for Pep. These managers donβt manage their budgets like Ten Hag has done. It was set up for failure from day 1.
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What I would add too based on experience of what has took place is that for a small number of Managers, in example, what might have worked for them at Chelsea, doesn’t mean it will work for them exactly the same at Manchester United.
I almost wanted to use Pep as an exception, but even with him, I think at best, he would need Time regardless of being able to spend and bring whoever he wanted to (if that was the case).
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I’ve mentioned this to the guys on our Whats App having this very discussion. I don’t personally hold any disappointment re Amorim.
I believe in things happening for a reason as with the examples in player signings of Lavia and Caicedo.
Forget them and so glad we’ve saved Β£200 million pounds. Our stadium cannot be anymore extended, so we’re all good maximizing where we can on that front and can look towards other business opportunities.
On United, give Ratcliffe now a chance to embed himself, but don’t be in a hurry to sign and replace players (when you appoint a New Manager.) Also, what is the Man Untied long-term model? Is a Managerial Appointment short-term or long-term?
Don’t be in a hurry to tie somebody down too for an extension, because releasing somebody then becomes harder as we’ve now witnessed with this huge pay-out following a termination.
Decisions Top-to-Bottom really have to be more Carefully judged.
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CM, its not about Slot being a yes man or not. Its about having the right system around the right man. He was brought in because his more coach oriented style was what the management at Liverpool wanted. They didn’t want Amorim because he didn’t fit that profile. Simple as that.
The system around Utd has been lacking for years. Giving Ten Hag the freedom to spend ludicrous amounts of money on sub standard ex Ajax players was criminal. I wouldn’t call him a yes man, seems there was no one to say yes to! He just did what he wanted.
This is now time to see the quality or not of Ineos. Have they understood how to build success by changing more than just the manager, or will they go through the managerial merry-go-round like ever since Fergie retired?
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To an extent Ed, but the whole thing I think is still a bit of a mess. They give Ten Hag a contract extension, fork out Β£180 mil on transfers which have to follow a certain type of play that Ten Hag would have had to at least been comfortable with. And then they sack him 9 games in and are looking to appoint a manager who as Threeps has said is rumoured to like having transfer control. Why not get Amorim in straight away? Did they really feel like they couldn’t sack him because of the FA Cup win? All just seems a bit reactive.
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I think Three P’s is right; Lots of Factors to think about. It makes you wonder one of the reasons why JK Called Time on Liverpool. Any proposition for the guy putting himself in the shop window of course will have his own wants of Terms and Conditions in ways of operation and control.
It’s not as easy and as straight-forward. Ok so 9 games in, but what was reported a few days ago in broadcasting as Arne Slot breaking a record for the amount of competitive victories as a Newcomer, you’d think so far we haven’t done too bad.
All in all, rather than to draw in Liverpool as some form of comparison and benchmark, you United fans need to just focus securing somebody and focusing in starting from scratch, drawing a line under your previous regime and knuckle down to developing and progressing.
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Iβve no issue at all with them not removing him this summer. As I wrote earlier, he was set up to fail with being given all that control of transfers. Having won the FA Cup and now having the structure he deserved from day one, he deserved the chance to see if he could excel in a role more focused on being a head coach rather than an all controlling old fashioned style of manager. That it ended this soon into this βnew chanceβ is nobodyβs fault but his own. He left them no choice.
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Give the job to Kylie,I say!Or Buffy,if that fails
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Threeps-
I always said if Ten Hag had the right structure in place, then he would have succeeded. The reason why he brought in so many ex players is because United did not have footballing people in place when he arrived and had to rebuild a broken squad, so he turned to who he knew. United have been a shambles for years when it comes to transfers, who they signed under Ten Hag and those signings not succeeding isn’t a new thing, it happened under Ole, Jose, Van Gaap and Moyes too.
It is working for Liverpool now, but soon you will have to replace the likes of Salah, Van Dijk, Trent(if he doesn’t sign a deal). That will be the real test and there are not players like them. This structure of not allowing the manager decide who comes in will only work to an extend. If Liverpool pick up some injuries to key players, then people will look at last summer and ask why didn’t the manager get backed.
Serious question, does Slot have a final say on who Liverpool sign or not?
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Nobody listened to him though apparently. Lone Figure on the Touchline.
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If this is ultimately about the subject of Eric Ten Hag and the Proposition Manager, I really don’t understand why Liverpool are then drawn in? Alice has done exactly the same!
FSG draw restrictions and you don’t have an open-cheque-book under their EMPIRE. That’s the Reality. So it’s the about a Manager who can find study, find something, then develop to Uplift and create a New Vibe and ENERGY.
We signed Federico Chiesa currently injured. That should provide you information on our own ways and how we are coping!
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CM we can only speculate on exactly how much Slot is involved but his is from the man himself:
“Itβs a collaboration. I think every sports director wants to sign a player that is wanted by the manager and vice-versa,β Slot emphasized. He highlighted the involvement of the scouting and data departments in identifying the right players to fit Liverpoolβs needsβ .”
Of course replacing world class players is a challenge that is nothing new in football. But as Nil suggested this thread isn’t about Liverpool or Slot, and as you yourself said the problems at Utd lie deeper than just appointing a new manager (again). Time will tell if this change is successful but you have a lot of garbage to remove from the squad and with the inflated wages they are on that’s not going to be easy. The new guy will need time.
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Agree with Goose, I say Buffy with me as his assistant… I like working under Buffy!
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You lot really have splashed on a shed load of players and wages. Still cant get it right.
Remember as far back as Radamal.
Just short-term fixes. Same with Managers.
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Looks like it is Ruben Amorim.
39 years old. United’s 2nd youngest ever manager behind Busby. Let’s hope he is just as successful.
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Threeps-
Understand this thread is about Ten Hag and his successor. But I will make 1 last point. I believe Klopp was a better manager than Pep. The only difference both had was strength in depth. One got backed, whilst the other had to work miracles. Klopp has left Slot a decent side, but the best players are ageing. If Slot has the same tranfers restraints to Klopp, then Liverpool are in trouble imo. Klopp is an elite manager, the jury is out on Slot. Liverpool’s transfers the last 2-3 years have been questionable and you’re relying on Van Dijk and Salah to perform in order to win games. You also do not have a 100m plus player anymore to help buy players. In today’s game only a manager like Klopp can work under those circumstances. In the end it took a toll on him.
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CM yes players age, we can agree on that! Look at City and their best player over thr last few years looks on his last legs. He will be replaced and so will the likes of Salah and VvD. This season or not is another conversation. The best players always need replacing at some point! I find it sad that it seems a Utd fan is pinning the demise of Liverpool as a force on the departure of one or two key players.
Slot can only be judged on what we know and so far we know he is doing a bloody good job. Klopp will always be a Liverpool legend and he created a fantastic heavy metal style at Liverpool but he wasn’t very good with the transition to a more controlled style. Just by watching Liverpool so far it seems Slot has already made progress.
Amorim if he joins will be a risk but then every manager is. He plays 343 which I can’t see suiting the current Utd squad. But what would concern me more is that last season he was linked with Liverpool, Bayern, Barca and Chelsea and they all turned him down (and all looking good for it) yet he ended up pimping his services to West Ham in what it seems a desperate act to join a well paid job. He even left Sportings training camp to do so, which led to even WHU saying no and Amorim returning to Sporting with his tail between his legs. This tells me he doesn’t care if the job suits him or not, just if the pay cheque does. Wasn’t a good look for him.
Edit: what I’m basically saying CM is worry about your own club and its rather sorry situation (once more) whilst we will see what happens with Slot but do far we are enjoying being contenders for the league and sitting 11 points ahead of Utd after only 9 games.
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Would think he was pimping himself to Spam-boyz to use them as a stepping stone to one of the big-boyz….
….instead, he’s using YooUtd to pimp himslef to one of the big-boyz…. π
(And yes, I think most of us would like to see Pool relagated or something, you’ve won enough over the years!)
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